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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

It looks like the sons of union vets supports the confederate flag. :lamo

And opinions are like assholes.... Everybody has one.

Again the confederate battle flag should not be flown on Federal, state or local government property outside of historical context like in a museum, period. It was only brought back many years after the civil war as a display against segregation.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

A neighborhood watch creep who was asked not to follow Martin by the dispatcher, agreed not to do so and then did it anyway.

Only in an Alice in Liberal-land fantasy does a person who volunteers his time to rid his high-crime neighborhood of thugs qualify as the "creep." So what do you call a cop who says to a citizen "You're going to die tonight" and starts beating the citizen's head a concrete sidewalk because he was following him?

So OJ Zimmerman had the right to stalk and murder Martin but Martin did not have the right to confront his stalker and deal with his perceived threat.

When someone is bashing your head against pavement and you shoot that person, in the real world that's called self-defense, Alice.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

We reject that biblical idea that "the sins of the fathers shall be visited on the sons unto the seventh generation" (as long as the sons don't continue to commit the sins, of course).

So what does God say about morons?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

And opinions are like assholes.... Everybody has one.

Again the confederate battle flag should not be flown on Federal, state or local government property outside of historical context like in a museum, period. It was only brought back many years after the civil war as a display against segregation.
It's was at a memorial 20firstdraft-flag-tmagArticle.jpg so not techinaly near state property. But I do agree that it shouldn't be flown on the state property.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

Only in an Alice in Liberal-land fantasy does a person who volunteers his time to rid his high-crime neighborhood of thugs qualify as the "creep." So what do you call a cop who says to a citizen "You're going to die tonight" and starts beating the citizen's head a concrete sidewalk because he was following him?



When someone is bashing your head against pavement and you shoot that person, in the real world that's called self-defense, Alice.

What about a guy who beats his wife ...?

No. Sorry. No. He was following a kid who he suspected of criminal activity because he was black. He harassed a citizen who had demonstrated no crime. He shot that citizen for no reason.

Sorry, no. If you go around shooting people because you live in a high-crime neighborhood, i have a revelation for you- YOU are a BIG part of THE PROBLEM.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

In front of the State Congress building is government property even if it's public, same thing.

So basicly your stating even thought it's not near the state congress building but in front of it the flag should be removed? It was on a memorial and according to the sons of union veterans that was an ok place too fly them, though, I do agree shouldn't be flown on state buildings like the court house ectt....
 
Re: Confederate Flag

If you go around shooting people because you live in a high-crime neighborhood, i have a revelation for you- YOU are a BIG part of THE PROBLEM.

Please, spare us the hyperbole. Zimmerman wasn't going "around shooting people because" he lived in a high-crime neighborhood. Martin was shot when he was on top of Zimmerman banging his head against a sidewalk. The revelation to me is that people don't think that's justification for self-defense, or that if one used the word "thug" or "thuggish" to describe the assault he must be a white supremacist because the perp happened to be black. :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Please, spare us the hyperbole. Zimmerman wasn't going "around shooting people because" he lived in a high-crime neighborhood. Martin was shot when he was on top of Zimmerman banging his head against a sidewalk. The revelation to me is that people don't think that's justification for self-defense, or that if one used the word "thug" or "thuggish" to describe the assault he must be a white supremacist because the perp happened to be black. :roll:

I'm sure Zimmerman gave a very convincing account that suggested he had done no wrong.

It's too bad the kid is dead because i'd very much like to hear his side of the story.

If someone was following me, especially the type of guy who carries a loaded gun while looking for trouble at night, i'd be scared, too.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

And opinions are like assholes.... Everybody has one.

Again the confederate battle flag should not be flown on Federal, state or local government property outside of historical context like in a museum, period.
:naughty
No.
As it is a memorial for US Veterans it should have remained exactly where it was.


 
Re: Confederate Flag

Going for the OP here:

I do not really agree with either extremes here, but as an American living in America (sometimes I wish I were abroad and ignorant) and someone with a respect of the good, the bad, and the ugly in history more generally, and this has been eating away at me for awhile.

I completely agree the Confederate States of America's inception under the premise of preserving an economy based fundamentally on slave labor makes its former flag a symbol that represents Slavery (States' Rights aside). Besides, it was the symbol of a revolutionary movement against the United States. There is no legitimacy in displaying this battle flag on government buildings or property (or really anywhere not private in this context), and I have always wondered why this was allowed to happen at all. Why are we specifically promoting a movement, especially on the face of government properties, which voluntarily initiated a war that cost 750,000+ American lives?

However, this justified criticism of the flag seems to be spilling over to the people who associate with it today. I do not believe the majority of people with some emotional attachment to the 150 year old (yes! 150 years ago!) Confederate Flag support Slavery as an institution. This is a ridiculous assumption that seems to be cropping up amidst a debate that has nothing to do with the history of our country, but rather our current emotional state as a nation towards this symbol due to recent racial tensions and events and a lone murderer who is winning the war for escalating racial tensions in our country. We may still disagree with the fundamentals of its representation, but that does not make these people racists in the least.

In essence, we should absolutely remove the Confederate Flag from UNITED STATES government buildings. That being said, there is a dangerous sentiment rising that would seek to erase a very meaningful and essential part of the American story. I have been reading a series of articles in the past weeks about changing the names of all schools, town squares, mascots, and on and on named after CSA-associated persons. Not all who lived in the South or supported the CSA necessarily supported the institution of Slavery in itself, even at the time of the Civil War. Like many institutions that we look back on in hindsight, Slavery has faced the judgment of humankind and been condemned time and time again. At its height in the United States and particularly in the South, it was a societal norm. People, including each of you, generally ride societal waves just like the rest of us. How can we so categorically assume that everyone who stood with their families or followed what their community leaders taught at the time were all inherently racist or otherwise bad people? They simply were not, and there is ample historical evidence that supports this, waves upon waves of reluctant men who approved of the institution only as a means to an end, and plenty more who fought the rest of their lives in the public eye to atone for their sins.

So to me, we have to understand where to draw the line here and what logical path we are following to reach our conclusions. At the end of the day, there is no real reason to take a stand on keeping the Confederate Battle Flag itself, but there is a reason to take a stand against the suppression of history and the demonization of people who were just doing what they thought was right at the time. They were still loving, caring, patriotic, and honorable people (many of them), and I think it is reckless to heap such a spur of the moment emotional opinion onto their existence based on this Confederate Flag business.

It is upon the bedrock of our society that we agree to disagree peacefully. So no, we should not rise to meet and match the tumultuous history of our Civil War by tearing down statues and amending our history books. We should not dig up old remains of people who lived the majority of their lives serving this Union in the line of duty in the years leading up the Civil War just to move them to some forgotten place out of sight, out of mind. Leave the Confederacy to rest, to disintegrate, but remember, America, remember. This history is a part of your identity, and you should never forget.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

:naughty
No.
As it is a memorial for US Veterans it should have remained exactly where it was.



The memorial is still there.

You just can't salute your symbol of bigotry in front of the state house any more.

Sad for you...
 
JTCambride i'd agree with you, except the attitude of the people rallying behind the battle flag is simply reprehensible.

They deny basic history, they deny that any negative interpretation of the battle flag is valid, then they double down on rubbing the flag in people's faces.

This isn't "southern pride." This is "Screw you northerners and blacks. We want to piss you off for no reason. You mean less than nothing to us. Making you mad only makes waving this flag around even better."

That, or maybe they're aversive racists searching for a subconscious outlet for their abhorrent racial superiority complex.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The memorial is still there.

You just can't salute your symbol of bigotry in front of the state house any more.

Sad for you...
1. You know not of what you speak.
2. The Memorial is an appropriate place for the Flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

1. You know not of what you speak.
2. The Memorial is an appropriate place for the Flag.

1. Are you saying that the memorial is gone? Are you saying that the flag is still there?

2. Sure. Leave it on the ground for people to spit on. Or maybe in a glass case so it isn't flying in the air as a symbol that the south went to war because they couldn't force slavery on the north any other way.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Which flag are we talking about here? In School I was taught that One flag Represented the south, and the other not so much. Both are in history and you can't change History and last time I checked no one is trying to change history. My books haven't changed the internet hasn't change it. People freaking out over nothing, just like how their guns were being taken away even though it's just as easy to get one now than it was before. The American Flag was made before the Confederate so there is no mixing that up. If people want to get rid of the American flag that bad then you might be in the wrong country, This is America not the Confederatea.

Lets say I made a flag design that had all the American and civil flags burning to represent the right to be free, and the bringing of youth and knowledge. Not too sure everyone would be happy about that, I even saw some guy hit a kid for burning a flag that he bought. We all see it in different ways. show respect to one another.

Last time I checked it wasn't Obama who got rid of the flag. Obama isn't the only one running this country. There are checks and balances, it was voted on, and even Republicans voted to remove it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

1. Are you saying that the memorial is gone? Are you saying that the flag is still there?

2. Sure. Leave it on the ground for people to spit on. Or maybe in a glass case so it isn't flying in the air as a symbol that the south went to war because they couldn't force slavery on the north any other way.
:doh

Your bigotry is showing.

I didn't stutter. I clearly stated; "The Memorial is an appropriate place for the Flag."
 
Re: Confederate Flag

How did Trayvon Martin "bring destruction upon himself?" ... But Martin did nothing but defend himself.
Your absurd take on the case has already been shown to be wrong, several times.





A neighborhood watch creep who was asked not to follow Martin by the dispatcher, agreed not to do so and then did it anyway. So OJ Zimmerman had the right to stalk and murder Martin but Martin did not have the right to confront his stalker and deal with his perceived threat. Thanks for expressing the white supremacist view of the world so succinctly. Looks like in your case the sins are still being committed. BTW, have you been following the exploits of your "hero" since he murdered Martin? Now there's the behavior of a thug, all right. But I guess since he doesn't wear a hoody and he's got white skin it's all okay. Such rightwing bull****.
:doh
Just stop. You do not know what you are talking about.
1. The Call-taker (a person with no authority) did not ask Zimmerman not to follow. He stated that they did not need him to do that.
1(a). Zimmerman stopped and did not follow from that point on. He went in another direction.

2. There was no stalking. Following to keep eyes on a suspicious person until the police you called arrives, is not staking. It is called Observing.

3. Anyone has a right to ask someone why they are following them. They do not have a right to attack them like Trayvon did.

4. Trayvon had disappeared and only reappeared later when Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle.
Either he laid in wait or he made it the short distance home only to return to deliberately place himself in danger and attack him.

5. There was no murder. It was a justifiable killing of an attacker.


You even were speaking of the Brown case and displayed that you also have no idea what you were talking about in regards to that case as well.
Brown was not murdered.
And even though the Chief initially said he wasn't aware of the call about the theft it was later found out that he was.
Most folks understand that when new confirmed information counters the old unconfirmed you dismiss the old as irrelevant.





All that the trial proved is that the jury was not convinced that Zimmerman was guaranteed to not have been defending himself.

The prosecution may have simply be unable to prove Zimmerman was a crazy stalker. Notice Zimmerman's name in subsequent news reports? Seems that he's not exactly a stable person.
You know not of what you speak.

The trial showed by the evidence that Zimmerman was defending himself. The Trier of Fact (the Jury) determined that is what was proven and as such, he was found not guilty.

There was no evidence of stalking.
Following to observe someone who was acting suspiciously that he had called the Police on? Yes. But not stalking. And btw, stalkers do not call the Police.
To even suggest he was stalking is lunacy.


False accusations are not an indication of stability or instability. D'oh!


The Matthew Apperson character that fired on Zimmerman is exactly the type of unstable person that others wished call Zimmerman.
He even exemplified the idiocy of the arguments made by folks here that a person could just claim SYG and walk away.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

:doh

Your bigotry is showing.

I didn't stutter. I clearly stated; "The Memorial is an appropriate place for the Flag."

Your post makes absolutely no sense. I suggest you re-read our back and forth and formulate a coherent response. I consider whatever that is ^ to be a forfeit.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Your absurd take on the case has already been shown to be wrong, several times.






:doh
Just stop. You do not know what you are talking about.
1. The Call-taker (a person with no authority) did not ask Zimmerman not to follow. He stated that they did not need him to do that.
1(a). Zimmerman stopped and did not follow from that point on. He went in another direction.

2. There was no stalking. Following to keep eyes on a suspicious person until the police you called arrives, is not staking. It is called Observing.

3. Anyone has a right to ask someone why they are following them. They do not have a right to attack them like Trayvon did.

4. Trayvon had disappeared and only reappeared later when Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle.
Either he laid in wait or he made it the short distance home only to return to deliberately place himself in danger and attack him.

5. There was no murder. It was a justifiable killing of an attacker.


You even were speaking of the Brown case and displayed that you also have no idea what you were talking about in regards to that case as well.
Brown was not murdered.
And even though the Chief initially said he wasn't aware of the call about the theft it was later found out that he was.
Most folks understand that when new confirmed information counters the old unconfirmed you dismiss the old as irrelevant.





You know not of what you speak.

The trial showed by the evidence that Zimmerman was defending himself. The Trier of Fact (the Jury) determined that is what was proven and as such, he was found not guilty.

There was no evidence of stalking.
Following to observe someone who was acting suspiciously that he had called the Police on? Yes. But not stalking. And btw, stalkers do not call the Police.
To even suggest he was stalking is lunacy.


False accusations are not an indication of stability or instability. D'oh!


The Matthew Apperson character that fired on Zimmerman is exactly the type of unstable person that others wished call Zimmerman.
He even exemplified the idiocy of the arguments made by folks here that a person could just claim SYG and walk away.

Yeah, it's totally cool to pick a fight with a black dude then shoot him dead in "self defense."

All men are created equal, except for blacks. That's in the constitution, right?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Your post makes absolutely no sense. I suggest you re-read our back and forth and formulate a coherent response. I consider whatever that is ^ to be a forfeit.
Your post bereft of logic.
Try again.

1. Are you saying that the memorial is gone? Are you saying that the flag is still there?

2. Sure. Leave it on the ground for people to spit on. Or maybe in a glass case so it isn't flying in the air as a symbol that the south went to war because they couldn't force slavery on the north any other way.
:doh

Your bigotry is showing.

I didn't stutter. I clearly stated; "The Memorial is an appropriate place for the Flag."


Yeah, it's totally cool to pick a fight with a black dude then shoot him dead in "self defense."
As I already said, You do not know what you are talking about.
That did not happen.
Zimmerman did not pick a fight. It is absurd to even claim such and speaks volumes of your own bias.
The only evidence is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Learn the evidence.



All men are created equal, except for blacks. That's in the constitution, right?
So you want to display your ignorance of what the Constitution says as well? :lamo
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yeah,

Remove it completely, the USA does not needs symbols that stand for its division and weakening. But it should not ever be removed from historical books because those people fought for a cause once upon a time when the US was struggling to be independent.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So basicly your stating even thought it's not near the state congress building but in front of it the flag should be removed? It was on a memorial and according to the sons of union veterans that was an ok place too fly them, though, I do agree shouldn't be flown on state buildings like the court house ectt....

Yes I am stating it should be removed, and has been. Don't care if it was a memorial, we don't celebrate enemy flags on government property.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

:naughty
No.
As it is a memorial for US Veterans it should have remained exactly where it was.



No it should not. The memorial is still there, it does not need to be removed. The flag however should be and was removed. End of story.
 
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