Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:

It is very funny, but it is not laughable...

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I didn't think you'd agree.

Yeah, I am American. Born in Oregon. Raised just south of L.A.

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Which makes your lack of awareness about how racism is expressed in this country puzzling. Maybe it's your age. Are you under 40? A lot of people born after the CRAs went into effect probably didn't get much education about what it was like before. A lot of people liked to pretend the CRAs solved all of that ugliness. They did not. Certain "entitled" whites have been grousing about the loss of their political and social domination ever since.

That said, racism in New Zealand against low socio-economic Maori is very bad here. Racism in Japan is horrible. The USA just gets the most press.

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I've heard that. About Australia, too. Both countries settled by English imperialists, much like this one (USA). It's a shame.

Dismiss away then... anything to justify yourself being correct, I guess.

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I don't dismiss them but they are a very tiny portion of the black community. Some of them are vocal just to be contrarian, I think. They don't want to be seen as part of a"pack." One of the knocks on black voters that the right wing attacks them with (oh great way to win 'em over, eh?) is that they vote as too solid a bloc, suggesting that they aren't smart enough to make and informed choice (another winning tack, right) seems to get to these guys. Never mind that republicans have their white, rightwing voting blocs that are every bit as loyal to them as black voters are to most Dem politicians. Probably thinks this makes them fascinating. I think that's the kind of thing that gets people like Ben Carson into rightwing politics. Republican voters like to vote 'em up in polls but not very much so when the actual primaries get rolling. Along comes some shiny bigot like Trump and no one even remembers who Carson is. Of course, he does get attention for his crackpot fundamental religiosity, too.

I've followed some of your other comments and it seems that you and I are not very far apart in general. It comes down to politeness, I think. You think a lot of people who don't earn it should be treated that way anyway. I don't. Civility doesn't really work with people who yearn to live in the 9th century.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

I didn't think you'd agree.

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I like to make fun of myself better than others try to make fun of me...

Which makes your lack of awareness about how racism is expressed in this country puzzling. Maybe it's your age. Are you under 40? A lot of people born after the CRAs went into effect probably didn't get much education about what it was like before. A lot of people liked to pretend the CRAs solved all of that ugliness. They did not. Certain "entitled" whites have been grousing about the loss of their political and social domination ever since.

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Yes, thug is a term used by a lot to identify and racially demean black people but it is not universal like nigger is. A thug can also be a person of another race and a nigger never can be. That is the difference... and I majored in history, teach history and especially civil rights with regards to blacks in the United States. I fully understand how racism is expressed.

I've heard that. About Australia, too. Both countries settled by English imperialists, much like this one (USA). It's a shame.

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Agreed...

I don't dismiss them but they are a very tiny portion of the black community. Some of them are vocal just to be contrarian, I think. They don't want to be seen as part of a"pack." One of the knocks on black voters that the right wing attacks them with (oh great way to win 'em over, eh?) is that they vote as too solid a bloc, suggesting that they aren't smart enough to make and informed choice (another winning tack, right) seems to get to these guys. Never mind that republicans have their white, rightwing voting blocs that are every bit as loyal to them as black voters are to most Dem politicians. Probably thinks this makes them fascinating. I think that's the kind of thing that gets people like Ben Carson into rightwing politics. Republican voters like to vote 'em up in polls but not very much so when the actual primaries get rolling. Along comes some shiny bigot like Trump and no one even remembers who Carson is. Of course, he does get attention for his crackpot fundamental religiosity, too.

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I agree with this.

I've followed some of your other comments and it seems that you and I are not very far apart in general. It comes down to politeness, I think. You think a lot of people who don't earn it should be treated that way anyway. I don't. Civility doesn't really work with people who yearn to live in the 9th century.

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You aren't accusing me of being a ****ing polite person, are you? We're gonna have some problems!

Re: Confederate Flag

Yes, thug is a term used by a lot to identify and racially demean black people but it is not universal like nigger is.

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It was almost immediately the term applied to Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown even before any facts were known about them. It's become almost automatic from the people who don't seem to mind the gunning down or killing of unarmed black men for no or minor offenses.

You aren't accusing me of being a ****ing polite person, are you? We're gonna have some problems!

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Politeness has its virtues. But misplaced politeness can be read as approval by some of its recipients. But let's not quibble too much about etiquette.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

There are a lot of black men and women who, for reasons unfathomable to anyone but themselves, seem to need side with the people who despise them. I don't pretend to understand the psychology there. Hell, some Jews actually assisted their captors in the death camps to get a slightly bigger crust of bread and maybe a bit of a blanket during the Winter. It's sometimes called "self-hating," but that's too cavalier. Bill Cosby has been one of those, by the way. I really love his comedy when I was coming of age but, wow, what a tawdry secret he had all those years.

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Maybe they don't need your pity sympathy?????

Pfft.... like you know whats best for them in your infinite white liberal knowledge.....

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

It was almost immediately the term applied to Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown even before any facts were known about them. It's become almost automatic from the people who don't seem to mind the gunning down or killing of unarmed black men for no or minor offenses.

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But now that the facts are in can we all agree that Trayvon Martin and Micheal Brown were thugs who brought their destruction upon themselves? I mean, for example, when the "unarmed" Michael Brown attempted to grab Darren Wilson's gun he wasn't trying to give him a hug, you know? Neither was the "unarmed" Trayvon Martin when he was smashing George Zimmerman's head against a concrete sidewalk.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

It was almost immediately the term applied to Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown even before any facts were known about them. It's become almost automatic from the people who don't seem to mind the gunning down or killing of unarmed black men for no or minor offenses.

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That doesn't make it the new nigger though. That said, Trayvon was dressed, at night, with his hood over his head. Unless you are on the docks, taking a morning walk in the cold or a surfer that is usually the sign of a person who wants to be seen as a tough guy. Anybody who has been in lower socio-economic neighbourhoods or around gangs knows this. Kids that dress like that either are thugs or want to appear like thugs/punks. Brown did not look like a thug but he just robbed and assaulted that store owner... making him, literally, a thug. I am sorry if more blacks commit crimes and have a tougher life but that does not negate the truth. Covering it up or blaming others will not help.

White thugs, black thugs, criminal thugs. That about cover it? | | Dallas Morning News

Politeness has its virtues. But misplaced politeness can be read as approval by some of its recipients. But let's not quibble too much about etiquette.

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I am about as impolite as they come when I feel the need.

Re: Confederate Flag

Ahlevah said:

But now that the facts are in can we all agree that Trayvon Martin and Micheal Brown were thugs who brought their destruction upon themselves? I mean, for example, when the "unarmed" Michael Brown attempted to grab Darren Wilson's gun he wasn't trying to give him a hug, you know? Neither was the "unarmed" Trayvon Martin when he was smashing George Zimmerman's head against a concrete sidewalk.

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How did Trayvon Martin "bring destruction upon himself?" Michael Brown, yes. But Martin did nothing but defend himself. I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing, if some big ass guy came after me and all I was armed with was a bag of candy and a can of tea. :shrug: People need to stop comparing Trayvon Marton to Michael Brown. Brown went after a cop, for Pete's sake, after he strong-armed a store owner. Trayvon Martin was just walking home, and ended up losing his life just for defending himself.

Re: Confederate Flag

Superfly said:

Trayvon Martin was just walking home, and ended up losing his life just for defending himself.

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Defending himself from what? A neighborhood watch captain who was following him? Being followed doesn't give you the right to assault someone and try to smash his head into a concrete sidewalk, which is what the forensic evidence in the Zimmerman trial indicated.

Re: Confederate Flag

Superfly said:

But Martin did nothing but defend himself. Trayvon Martin was just walking home, and ended up losing his life just for defending himself.

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That was never proven. It WAS proven, in a trial, that Zimmerman was in fact defending himself.

See..... you want to stick to that crazy ass story that has no evidence to support it.... but this whole trial thing just gets in your way.

Damned trials and their "facts". You liberals should work on banning them too.

Everything should be judged on Feewings. And I will move to another Country.

Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:

That was never proven. It WAS proven, in a trial, that Zimmerman was in fact defending himself.

See..... you want to stick to that crazy ass story that has no evidence to support it.... but this whole trial thing just gets in your way.

Damned trials and their "facts". You liberals should work on banning them too.

Everything should be judged on Feewings. And I will move to another Country.

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All that the trial proved is that the jury was not convinced that Zimmerman was guaranteed to not have been defending himself.

The prosecution may have simply be unable to prove Zimmerman was a crazy stalker. Notice Zimmerman's name in subsequent news reports? Seems that he's not exactly a stable person.

Or i suppose you think OJ was innocent because he wasn't convicted of murder? Or was he somehow half guilty half innocent because he then lost the wrongful death trial?

Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:

All that the trial proved is that the jury was not convinced that Zimmerman was guaranteed to not have been defending himself.

The prosecution may have simply be unable to prove Zimmerman was a crazy stalker. Notice Zimmerman's name in subsequent news reports? Seems that he's not exactly a stable person.

Or i suppose you think OJ was innocent because he wasn't convicted of murder? Or was he somehow half guilty half innocent because he then lost the wrongful death trial?

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OJ Was innocent. Civil suits are often based on emotion. Not the same with criminal trials.

Do I FEEL that OJ was guilty? Sure. But I wouldn't argue that he is guilty though.

Re: Confederate Flag

On the subject of "heritage," I'm completely screwed. On my mother's side, my ancestors owned slaves in Mississippi and fought for the Confederacy. On my father's side, my grandfather was German so my great uncles and cousins were either in the Werhmacht during WWII and/or were Nazis. :doh I can only imagine the reaction if I flew a Reichskriegsflagge from my front porch next to my Confederate Battle Flag.


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The only difference between the North and the South is that in the South, people will tell and show how much they hate you, meanwhile in the north, they smile in your face and act like they really care if you have equal rights and opportunities.

Ryriena said:

I have no idea why some deny the Slaves were one of the many issue of the civil war many leaders mention said issuses in their speeches

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Well, it's the first and often the only issue mentioned in speeches, writings and official secession documents. It wasn't just "one of the many issues." It was by far the most prominent and important issue to the south. It has only become a secondary issue in the south's rewriting of the history of that time after it lost the war, slavery was abolished and the apologists for the south's treason had to come up with a bunch of new and nicer sounding justifications for it. Before the war started our southern politicians, unlike their ideological descendants today, were quite open, honest and unapologetic for their determination to fight to the death to keep and extend slavery.

Re: Confederate Flag

Ahlevah said:

On the subject of "heritage," I'm completely screwed. On my mother's side, my ancestors owned slaves in Mississippi and fought for the Confederacy. On my father's side, my grandfather was German so my great uncles and cousins were either in the Werhmacht during WWII and/or were Nazis. :

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We reject that biblical idea that "the sins of the fathers shall be visited on the sons unto the seventh generation" (as long as the sons don't continue to commit the sins, of course).

stonewall50 said:

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Unless the blacks are Scottish or Irish nationalists I can't imagine why anyone would tell you something that stupid.

rickyshii said:

The only difference between the North and the South is that in the South, people will tell and show how much they hate you, meanwhile in the north, they smile in your face and act like they really care if you have equal rights and opportunities.

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Ooooh, sounds like someone hasn't been very successful in life and needs someone else to blame.

Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:

OJ Was innocent. Civil suits are often based on emotion. Not the same with criminal trials.

Do I FEEL that OJ was guilty? Sure. But I wouldn't argue that he is guilty though.

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Other than the blatant contradiction contained in those sentences do you really believe emotion doesn't play a role in criminal trials? Any time humans are involved in almost any endeavor there will be emotions at play. Even your first sentence injects your emotion into the topic. Defendants in criminal trials are found either "guilty" or "not guilty." No one is ever found "innocent."

Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:

Maybe they don't need your pity sympathy?????

Pfft.... like you know whats best for them in your infinite white liberal knowledge.....

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Thanks. Nail firmly hit and just wanted to acknowledge your being 100% absolutely correct since it was directed at me. Since I had the absolute nerve to school a white liberal on the truth.

Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:

Maybe they don't need your pity sympathy?????

Pfft.... like you know whats best for them in your infinite white liberal knowledge.....

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Does it really make you feel like a "winner" when you derail and deflect a discussion like that?

Re: Confederate Flag

Black Dog said:

Thanks. Nail firmly hit and just wanted to acknowledge your being 100% absolutely correct since it was directed at me. Since I had the absolute nerve to school a white liberal on the truth.

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Did you think I was expressing pity? That's weird. You "schooled" me on your truth. Do you claim to speak the truth for all black men and women?

Re: Confederate Flag

Ahlevah said:

But now that the facts are in can we all agree that Trayvon Martin and Micheal Brown were thugs who brought their destruction upon themselves?

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Thanks for proving my point about the new use of the word "thug" as a substitute for a word that you don't dare use anymore.

Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:

Did you think I was expressing pity? That's weird. You "schooled" me on your truth. Do you claim to speak the truth for all black men and women?

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Only when it comes to your written nonsense. Gonna tell me I don't know what racism is. :lamo

Then claim blacks who break off the liberal plantation are somehow self hating.

Yes every bit of crap you type is nothing but unadulterated garbage.

I said nothing about pity. Reading comprehension is fundamental.

Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:

That doesn't make it the new nigger though. That said, Trayvon was dressed, at night, with his hood over his head. Unless you are on the docks, taking a morning walk in the cold or a surfer that is usually the sign of a person who wants to be seen as a tough guy.

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Or how about someone walking home in the rain? Jesus, bhot, just when I think we have common ground you go all rightwing-meme on me again.

Anybody who has been in lower socio-economic neighbourhoods or around gangs knows this.

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Again, I have to conclude this statement is due to your out-of-touch situation being a long way from here.

Brown did not look like a thug but he just robbed and assaulted that store owner... making him, literally, a thug. I am sorry if more blacks commit crimes and have a tougher life but that does not negate the truth. Covering it up or blaming others will not help.

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Of course, Wilson did not know that when he stopped Brown--his own department admitted that. Besides, even if Wilson had known that, summary execution by cop is not what we like to call "due process" (or don't they have that in NZ and you've forgotten about it?). You also might not be aware that the murder of Brown was just one of a wave of such murrders of unarmed black men in this country by cops (or civilians in the case of Martin). I never cease to be amazed at the lengths to which some whites will go to justify these murders, like the use of broad crime statistics to justify the unjustifiable murder of one black teen.

White thugs, black thugs, criminal thugs. That about cover it? | | Dallas Morning News

That's what it is, all right. An attempt to cover it. Only thing missing is that part where these alleged unarmed "white thugs" are being murdered by cops. Got any examples of that?

I am about as impolite as they come when I feel the need.[/QUOTE]