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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Nobody is proposing digging up people's graves and desecrating their remains. Calm down your hysterics.

This is about flying a flag that clearly advertises socially controversial connotations over state-owned property.

Fly it over your property, fine.

You don't get to complain about them pulling the Dukes of Hazard. Sorry. That's how it works. They are free to pull the show out of syndication, just like you're free to buy the dvd box set. You don't get to complain that people aren't making it easier to retain an offensive symbol, nobody else has any obligation to do that. They're just being free.
 
Absentglare said:
Nobody is proposing digging up people's graves and desecrating their remains. Calm down your hysterics.

This is about flying a flag that clearly advertises socially controversial connotations over state-owned property.

Fly it over your property, fine.

You don't get to complain about them pulling the Dukes of Hazard. Sorry. That's how it works. They are free to pull the show out of syndication, just like you're free to buy the dvd box set. You don't get to complain that people aren't making it easier to retain an offensive symbol, nobody else has any obligation to do that. They're just being free.
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Memphis seeks to remove remains of Confederate general from park | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Um...yea they are actually.

And it is kind of stupid to pull dukes of hazard. Why? Mainly because it is stupid that people are still pissed off at this.
 
The best part of this debate is that I've seen more flags now that people are complaining about them. And I live in the south lol.
 
stonewall50 said:
Memphis seeks to remove remains of Confederate general from park | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Um...yea they are actually.

And it is kind of stupid to pull dukes of hazard. Why? Mainly because it is stupid that people are still pissed off at this.
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This discussion is not about digging up remains.

There might be other reasons to dig up remains.

This discussion is about flying the flag. Go start another thread if you want to discuss something off topic.

You think it's stupid to pull dukes. Cool. You're free to your opinion. It's stupid to complain about. It would be foolish for a large tv station to give a prominent symbol of racism front-and-center treatment because it would limit their consumer base. That's how business works, finding the least common denominator. That's why people get all pissed off about PC-ness, but it's the way of the world that a bigger audience means you have to be more responsible to not project an image that is widely offensive. In this country, you're free to grow up, or whine about it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
As we've documented many times, horsegirl, you "know" a lot of things that either never happened and are not true.
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And you have proven so many times that the history of the South has been rewritten to make the South look bad. Thank you for once again proving that to be true
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
And you have proven so many times that the history of the South has been rewritten to make the South look bad. Thank you for once again proving that to be true
Click to expand...

This isn't another "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" post, is it? If it is, it runs in stark contrast to the Southern states official secession statements, which freely admitted that the lead up to the Civil War had everything to do with slavery.
 
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Absentglare said:
This discussion is not about digging up remains.

There might be other reasons to dig up remains.

This discussion is about flying the flag. Go start another thread if you want to discuss something off topic.

You think it's stupid to pull dukes. Cool. You're free to your opinion. It's stupid to complain about. It would be foolish for a large tv station to give a prominent symbol of racism front-and-center treatment because it would limit their consumer base. That's how business works, finding the least common denominator. That's why people get all pissed off about PC-ness, but it's the way of the world that a bigger audience means you have to be more responsible to not project an image that is widely offensive. In this country, you're free to grow up, or whine about it.
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1) you said nobody was trying. People are. You introduced it. I am free to point it out.

2) dukes of hazard isn't a symbol of racism. That is why it is stupid.

PC is tyranny with a smile.
 
stonewall50 said:
1) you said nobody was trying. People are. You introduced it. I am free to point it out.

2) dukes of hazard isn't a symbol of racism. That is why it is stupid.

PC is tyranny with a smile.
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a nasty cruel smile of gloating narcissism.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
And you have proven so many times that the history of the South has been rewritten to make the South look bad. Thank you for once again proving that to be true
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As opposed to trying to make the maintaining and expansion of slavery look good.
 
stonewall50 said:
1) you said nobody was trying. People are. You introduced it. I am free to point it out.

2) dukes of hazard isn't a symbol of racism. That is why it is stupid.

PC is tyranny with a smile.
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1) what i meant was that our arguments against flying that particular flag are not also saying we should dig up remains. No one here, in saying that flag should not be flown on government property, is saying that it also immediately follows that we should dig up graves. You can create an imaginary claim to defeat, but it won't be mine.

2) the dukes of hazard widely contains and popularizes an offensive symbol. If you grew up on Nazi propaganda videos, and really liked them, you would NOT be allowed to force their broadcast on people. THAT would be tyranny.

Political correctness is being mature in the face of globalization. Being considerate and aware of a wider spectrum of views than that of maw and paw down by the dunkin' pond.
 
Absentglare said:
1) what i meant was that our arguments against flying that particular flag are not also saying we should dig up remains. No one here, in saying that flag should not be flown on government property, is saying that it also immediately follows that we should dig up graves. You can create an imaginary claim to defeat, but it won't be mine.

2) the dukes of hazard widely contains and popularizes an offensive symbol. If you grew up on Nazi propaganda videos, and really liked them, you would NOT be allowed to force their broadcast on people. THAT would be tyranny.

Political correctness is being mature in the face of globalization. Being considerate and aware of a wider spectrum of views than that of maw and paw down by the dunkin' pond.
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Let's examine 1. People have done just that. And it won't stop with the flag. It will go on to bones and monuments. It will go too far. And the question will be what damage will have been done. Anyone not concerned about their first amendment isn't paying attention
 
stonewall50 said:
Let's examine 1. People have done just that. And it won't stop with the flag. It will go on to bones and monuments. It will go too far. And the question will be what damage will have been done. Anyone not concerned about their first amendment isn't paying attention
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Why do you say that? This is the slippery slope fallacy?

Your conclusion does not follow. No longer flying the flag on public property does not encroach, in any meaningful way, independent personal expression. It does not jeopardize civil rights memorials beyond simply bringing attention to them.

We (people who weren't lied to about the real cause of the civil war being slavery) had no any idea that you (southerners) had re-written this version of history that glorifies your side of the civil war. That whole set of memorials that seek to misrepresent history are certainly in danger. But not because of the flag, because of their inaccuracy.

So, the real question is, why do you have such a vested interest in maintaining these lies, in light of the fact that they're lies?
 
Absentglare said:
1) what i meant was that our arguments against flying that particular flag are not also saying we should dig up remains. No one here, in saying that flag should not be flown on government property, is saying that it also immediately follows that we should dig up graves. You can create an imaginary claim to defeat, but it won't be mine.

2) the dukes of hazard widely contains and popularizes an offensive symbol. If you grew up on Nazi propaganda videos, and really liked them, you would NOT be allowed to force their broadcast on people. THAT would be tyranny.

Political correctness is being mature in the face of globalization. Being considerate and aware of a wider spectrum of views than that of maw and paw down by the dunkin' pond.
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Demanding people use the right terminology or face persecution is anything but "being considerate of a wider spectrum of views".

Political correctness is demanding that everyone use what is deemed as the politically correct way to view something or be called a racist, sexist, bigot, etc.

Its about shutting people who don't agree with the politically correct views up, and preventing dialogue they don't like by keying in on certain words, whether they be overt, or even *code* words that are changed and added as often as underwear.
 
Ryriena said:
Lmao, just because I don't like the idea of digging up dead people or removing things means I am a white supremacist now?
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It's just a deflection of the real issue. And we know why you and others are so eager to deflect
He's still a ****ing terroist by today standards and a bloody war criminal who burned most of the cites down and also ordered his men to go ****ing crazy on the civilian populations of the south which was not kosher at the time as they had no way to defend themselves.
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Good gods, then what would that make slaveowners and their apologists still going on today. Do we get to call you nazis? Worse than nazis? Get. A. Grip. Your ancestors started a war and got their asses handed to them and then were forgiven. Not a single leader of that rebellion that cost more lives than any other war we've fought was hanged for his treason as they should have been in those days.

Do you know how to debate without calling people racist? Yes I know thats what the books say on Richmond during his March they burnt their city to keep him from looting the place. sweetie And just because he told the cities before hand doesn't make what he did righteous, I bet you approve of the way Bush handled Iraq?
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I'd be glad to stop pointing the finger at racist statements if people would stop making them.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
And you have proven so many times that the history of the South has been rewritten to make the South look bad.
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I guess then you think slavery and treason followed by over 100 years of brutality and violence against the formerly enslaved people are good things. That is the story of the south in this country. No one was innocent of the crimes but there certainly were degrees of guilt and the south was the center where the guiltiest of all dwelt.
 
Caine said:
Demanding people use the right terminology or face persecution is anything but "being considerate of a wider spectrum of views".

Political correctness is demanding that everyone use what is deemed as the politically correct way to view something or be called a racist, sexist, bigot, etc.

Its about shutting people who don't agree with the politically correct views up, and preventing dialogue they don't like by keying in on certain words, whether they be overt, or even *code* words that are changed and added as often as underwear.
Click to expand...

What? Nobody is forcing you to use anyone else's terminology. What we're explaining is that the accurate, historical cause of the civil war was slavery. The flag symbolizes that cause, the southern's civil war cause, slavery. It is unconscionable to use taxpayer money to fly that symbol in the air on government property.

Political correctness is ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY. You're well within your rights to be as bigoted as you want. Just don't expect everyone to cheer you on while you do.

The idea that you should be elevated to hero status for celebrating racist idols is just bizarre.
 
Absentglare said:
Political correctness is ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY. You're well within your rights to be as bigoted as you want. Just don't expect everyone to cheer you on while you do.
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Translation: If you don't fall in line with politically correct terms...... Your a racist/bigot/sexist/????-ist !!!!!!!!

The idea that you should be elevated to hero status for celebrating racist idols is just bizarre.
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Who is celebrating racist idols?

3455455065_liberal_tolerance_rant.jpeg
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Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
I guess then you think slavery and treason followed by over 100 years of brutality and violence against the formerly enslaved people are good things. That is the story of the south in this country. No one was innocent of the crimes but there certainly were degrees of guilt and the south was the center where the guiltiest of all dwelt.
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Confederate History - Dispelling The Myths Myths spewed by yankees refuted.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
As opposed to trying to make the maintaining and expansion of slavery look good.
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Yeah the yanks would have been at a severe economic consequences with or without slavery. The South would have total control of the Mississippi delta, and the yanks had to deal with frozen ports every winter. In other words, the South could really stick it to the yanks
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Tralfamadore said:
This isn't another "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" post, is it? If it is, it runs in stark contrast to the Southern states official secession statements, which freely admitted that the lead up to the Civil War had everything to do with slavery.
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Confederate History - Dispelling The Myths Nice try, but truth prevails again
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
Confederate History - Dispelling The Myths Nice try, but truth prevails again
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The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).

"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'" -6 Civil War Myths, Busted | 150th Anniversary of Civil War | Slavery, Race Relations & Battlefield Medicine

Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War. - Five myths about why the South seceded - The Washington Post

On 2 March 1861, the Morrill Tariff was signed into law by outgoing Democratic President James Buchanan to protect northern infant industries. A pernicious lie quickly formed around the tariff’s passage, a lie suggesting that somehow this tariff had caused the US Civil War. By ignoring slavery’s central role in precipitating secession and Civil War, this tariff myth has survived in the United States for more than a century and a half – and needs to be debunked once and for all. - Debunking the Civil War Tariff Myth | Imperial & Global Forum

Most historians agree that slavery was one of the primary issues leading to the Civil War. South Carolina seceded from the Union because of the clash between slave states and free states over the expansion of slavery. The Republican Party, then a new political party, made the fight against slavery in U.S. territories a key issue.

Historical revisionists have tried to whitewash history and improve the image of the Old South by eliminating slavery from the mix. And groups such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans insist the war was fought over self-governance and states’ rights. The war was about states’ rights, the right of Southern states to own black people. - Black History Month: Debunking the 10 biggest myths about black history | theGrio

Not true, says Levine, who has written several books on the Civil War era. While many assert that the South wanted to secede to protect states’ rights, tariffs, and other matters, Levine says, the historical record of North-South disputes during the 40 years prior to the conflict “shows unmistakably that slavery was central to it.” - http://www.las.illinois.edu/news/2011/civilwar/

Yes, yes it does.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

Black Dog said:
The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).

"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'" -6 Civil War Myths, Busted | 150th Anniversary of Civil War | Slavery, Race Relations & Battlefield Medicine

Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War. - Five myths about why the South seceded - The Washington Post

On 2 March 1861, the Morrill Tariff was signed into law by outgoing Democratic President James Buchanan to protect northern infant industries. A pernicious lie quickly formed around the tariff’s passage, a lie suggesting that somehow this tariff had caused the US Civil War. By ignoring slavery’s central role in precipitating secession and Civil War, this tariff myth has survived in the United States for more than a century and a half – and needs to be debunked once and for all. - Debunking the Civil War Tariff Myth | Imperial & Global Forum

Most historians agree that slavery was one of the primary issues leading to the Civil War. South Carolina seceded from the Union because of the clash between slave states and free states over the expansion of slavery. The Republican Party, then a new political party, made the fight against slavery in U.S. territories a key issue.

Historical revisionists have tried to whitewash history and improve the image of the Old South by eliminating slavery from the mix. And groups such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans insist the war was fought over self-governance and states’ rights. The war was about states’ rights, the right of Southern states to own black people. - Black History Month: Debunking the 10 biggest myths about black history | theGrio

Not true, says Levine, who has written several books on the Civil War era. While many assert that the South wanted to secede to protect states’ rights, tariffs, and other matters, Levine says, the historical record of North-South disputes during the 40 years prior to the conflict “shows unmistakably that slavery was central to it.” - The Many Myths of the Civil War « 2011 « News Archive « News « College of LAS « Illinois

Yes, yes it does.
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SO you're still upset that the yankee revisionism gets shot down so you cite more revisionists
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
SO you're still upset that the yankee revisionism gets shot down so you cite more revisionists
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Yes because all those people have no other interest then revising your unsupported grandpappy stories to make southerners look bad. :roll:

That's OK though, I knew you had nothing.

Thanks for playing. :2wave:
 
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