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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

225px-War_Flag_of_Novorussia.svg.png


Above is the flag of Vladimir Putin's aggression project ... Новоро́ссия (Novorossiya = New Russia) which looks similar to the Confederate battle flag. There are versions where the stars are also included.

The original Novorossiya was a large portion of southern/eastern Ukraine carved out by the Russian Czarina Catherine the Great and administered for her by Grigori Potemkin. The population of Novorossiya were peasant-serfs owned by the nobility and bound to the land they tilled. Novorossiya was returned to Ukraine after the Bolshevik Revolution.

Vladimir Putin dreamed of Russia once again ruling Novorossiya and his invasion and annexation of Crimea was the initial step. Next his security services enlisted pro-Russia citizens in eastern Ukraine who declared a Novorossiya confederation. The aim was to create an artificial Novorossiya state by force from Luhansk in the east to Odessa in the west (see image below). This would dismember Ukraine and she would lose all coastline and become a landlocked state. Russia would also gain control of the significant oil/gas reserves in these maritime waters (Black Sea/Sea of Azov). To date, this conflict initiated by Putin has claimed 7,000 lives and displaced 1.4 million people.

4TmaZ5Ryl2k.jpg

Map from the Novorossiya Party. Putin's grandiose plan to dismember Ukraine and create a breakaway Novorossiya state loyal to Moscow
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The next time a white person kills a black person in South Carolina, what will take the blame?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
You addressed the point? I failed to see that. All I saw was repetitive diatribe of how evil and racist the southern cross is. We get it.
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Um, we aren't debating a constellation, we are debating a CBF, the symbol of one of the worst chapters in US history.

But how does this change the life of black people? How does this improve white and black community relationships? Are racist white people going to stop acting on their racism by terrorizing blacks?
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Yes.
Are victim status blacks going to stop finding racism in everything?
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Ah, inherent in your premise is your true views of Blacks.
Or will they keep pushing to continue more removals and bans on objects, words, and opinions that they find offensive rather than having real discussions on some of the problems affecting relationships between the races?
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This is one of the most ignorant comments on Black activism I have seen in a long time, and again it reveals your inherent bias on racial relations.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
I could make a valid argument for *allowing* the Swastika.... Its called the 1st amendment.
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Sure, but the premise today is removal from state sponsored display.

I could also make a valid argument in support of the Swastika itself..... just so long as it isn't plastered on the red and white backdrop of the Nazi Germany flag.
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Of course, by removing it from the context of NAZI Germany, but the context of the CBF is not, cannot be removed from the Confederate govt.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
Um, we aren't debating a constellation, we are debating a CBF, the symbol of one of the worst chapters in US history.
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Constellation? WTF????? You don't even have the first understanding of the Confederate Battle Flag if you think the term "Southern Cross" refers to a constellation. This just shows you aren't educated on the issue enough to even be talking about it. :rofl

Yes.
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If you really think racist people aren't going to act a damned fool because of a flag you have a serious lack of understanding racism.
Ah, inherent in your premise is your true views of Blacks.
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Victim status blacks. I don't claim I have stated all blacks... just those who find racism in everything. That is what a "victim status" black person is. But of course..... you'd rather do this....
Progressive-PSA-announcement.jpg


This is one of the most ignorant comments on Black activism I have seen in a long time, and again it reveals your inherent bias on racial relations.
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I am calling it like I see it. Instead of discussing real problems, they are going after symbols, monuments, and trying to dig up the dead. Not to mention the major "black activism" group, "BlackLivesMatter" all but endorsed the burning of Baltimore in the name of Freddie Gray.....

But, that is none of my business......
 
South Carolina did not continue to fly the Confederate flag immediately after the war. I'm sure this would have been treason. It became popular during the Civil rights movement. I wonder why that is.
 
AudreyChelle said:
South Carolina did not continue to fly the Confederate flag immediately after the war. I'm sure this would have been treason. It became popular during the Civil rights movement. I wonder why that is.
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Already covered in the 1630 other posts in this thread.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Constellation? WTF????? You don't even have the first understanding of the Confederate Battle Flag if you think the term "Southern Cross" refers to a constellation. This just shows you aren't educated on the issue enough to even be talking about it. :rofl
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That is a pretty obscure reference, pointless bit of trivia, but then your argument is based on the flimsiest of ideas.

If you really think racist people aren't going to act a damned fool because of a flag you have a serious lack of understanding racism.
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No, you decided to create and continue an absolute argument on the effect of a ceasing of state sponsored displays of a symbol of a racist regime. It fails with just one person seeing that the state does not legitimize the symbol and rethinks their position, it fails with just one Black viewing this as a step in the right direction.
Victim status blacks. I don't claim I have stated all blacks...
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Straw, I did not say you did, but just you mentioning this dog whistle make clear your extreme POV.
just those who find racism in everything. That is what a "victim status" black person is. But of course..... you'd rather do this....
Progressive-PSA-announcement.jpg
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Too funny, you are in a debate about the absolutely racist system known as the Confederacy and the symbol of that system....and you are upset that racism is being discussed?

Your argument needs to get a grip.

I am calling it like I see it. Instead of discussing real problems, they are going after symbols, monuments, and trying to dig up the dead.
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I think your vision is blind, it ignores what the flag represents, it ignores its use, and it ignores that this is the tip of the discussion on race relations.



Not to mention the major "black activism" group, "BlackLivesMatter" all but endorsed the burning of Baltimore in the name of Freddie Gray.....
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And here you are again, confusing conflating riots with civil rights activism.

But, that is none of my business......
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If you say so.
 
Caine said:
Already covered in the 1630 other posts in this thread.
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I don't see anything coherent in post 1630. That said, the reason the confederate flag was raised during civil rights was to protest the Brown versus education decision.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
So Billy Bob the racist is going to stop teaching racism to his children?
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Probably not
So Ricky Bobby the racist is going to thank black people for complaining about his beloved flag and embrace them as brothers?
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Not likely. Not important what Ricky Bob racist does or doesn't do. We don't stop doing the right thing just because haters gotta hate.

You seriously think that removing the flag actually constitutes a tangible facet to healing?
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Without a doubt. It's been allowed to fly in the face of the victims of hate for far too long. We don't kowtow to the perpetrators of hate. They can keep hating or stop hating but they don't get to set the rules for the rest of society.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Of course.... only progressives and people who find racism in everything care about racism.

I actually care about whites and blacks getting along. Not blacks screaming at whites to understand just how racist whites are.

I care about 2 way communication.... not a one way dialogue.

But of course.... you have shown your ability to conduct civil debate by the above post.... So I'll just refrain from continuing conversation with you.

Good Day!
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So, you'd be much happier if the victims of racism would just be quiet about it. Thanks for using one of the classic arguments of the anti-civil rights efforts for at least the last 60 years if not all the way back to beginning of slavery in this country and the objections to it (which were there together from the start). Even if you could prove you're not a racist (don't bother trying, you can't do it) your type has been aiding and abetting racism all along. Do I take it from your closing remark that was your last comment on the subject? Very wise considering what you just revealed about yourself.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
Hmmmm. Nah. Too easy. However you still assume but don't know. Your misconceptions about others must get you through the day though
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I do appreciate how you're just "phoning it in" now. It does indicate that even you realize you've been pegged.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't see anything coherent in post 1630. That said, the reason the confederate flag was raised during civil rights was to protest the Brown versus education decision.
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Clearly you don't know how to read.

How do you turn "Covered in the other 1630 posts in this thread" into "Covered in post 1630 of this thread"

Oh, wait, I know, because you were just anxious to find a way to smack talk someone's post incoherent when you weren't part of that discussion, so anxious in fact that your brain leaked out of your skull and you forgot how to read.

Check below your chair, scoop that **** up, put it back in there, and lets keep going.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
So, you'd be much happier if the victims of racism would just be quiet about it. Thanks for using one of the classic arguments of the anti-civil rights efforts for at least the last 60 years if not all the way back to beginning of slavery in this country and the objections to it (which were there together from the start). Even if you could prove you're not a racist (don't bother trying, you can't do it) your type has been aiding and abetting racism all along. Do I take it from your closing remark that was your last comment on the subject? Very wise considering what you just revealed about yourself.
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The problem is, aside from obvious and overt racism which everyone finds deplorable....

Most Americans are tired of hearing stories of racism, especially stories that lack any evidence that RACISM had anything to do with an outcome.

I am tired of hearing about black people FEELING that someone was racist against them with nothing more than their victim status mentality telling them that it was in fact racism.

Myself, and other Americans are going to start demanding that these obscure accusations of racism be verified or that the accuser STFU.

It has gotten to the point that if a black person says it was racism..... it was. Regardless of reality.


Also, I find that your accusation of racism towards me because I called you out on your lack of civil debate to be just another typical liberal debate tactic.

Liberals preach tolerance.... and they claim to be tolerant..... unless you disagree with them... then you better shut your evil racist white mouth the **** up.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
The problem is, aside from obvious and overt racism which everyone finds deplorable....

Most Americans are tired of hearing stories of racism, especially stories that lack any evidence that RACISM had anything to do with an outcome.

I am tired of hearing about black people FEELING that someone was racist against them with nothing more than their victim status mentality telling them that it was in fact racism.

Myself, and other Americans are going to start demanding that these obscure accusations of racism be verified or that the accuser STFU.

It has gotten to the point that if a black person says it was racism..... it was. Regardless of reality.


Also, I find that your accusation of racism towards me because I called you out on your lack of civil debate to be just another typical liberal debate tactic.

Liberals preach tolerance.... and they claim to be tolerant..... unless you disagree with them... then you better shut your evil racist white mouth the **** up.
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Oh, won't someone think of the poor white people who are unwittingly racist and have to confront the idea that they've been waving a symbol of racism around all their lives?!

Sorry, maybe you're sick of the horrible burden of hearing other people complain about racism, but i suggest you suck it up. It's a whole lot better to hear some whining than it is to be discriminated against. Or have a symbol that epitomizes the idea that you were born inferior flying in your face on government property.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Riveroaks said:
There is little difference between the Stars And Bars and the Swastika.

If you can make a valid argument for allowing the Swastika, then sure, the Stars And Bars should be tolerated also.
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Except for the fact that the Stars and Bars was a flag carried by Confederate Americans 150 years ago and the Swastika has been around and used by dozens of societies for thousands of years, and it isn't a flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Riveroaks said:
There is little difference between the Stars And Bars and the Swastika.

If you can make a valid argument for allowing the Swastika, then sure, the Stars And Bars should be tolerated also.
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You are aware that the Egyptian Cross is to this day used by a Catholic sect right?

You are aware and for a miniscule period of world history was hijacked from the Romans by a perverted ideology.

I don't think the stars and bars goes back that far and as far as I know was only ever used by the Confederate States of America, a war still being fought it seems. Until Obama blew a gasket it was an acceptable form of expression, I am sorry you hate a part of United States history but there it is. Proof that "united" under Obama is only another campaign promise.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Superfly said:
:lol: Go back when Plessy v. Ferguson passed and ask the black people how equally they were treated.

Separate but equal. :lol:
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That was my point... Do you have anything else to add?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
Not really. Not primarily.

The confederate flag primarily represents slavery.
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Wrong. The Confederate Flag represents the South.

Designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee, a now-popular variant of the Confederate flag was rejected as the national flag in 1861. It was instead adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Robert E. Lee. Despite never having historically represented the CSA as a country nor officially recognized as one of the national flags, it is commonly referred to as "the Confederate Flag" and has become a widely recognized symbol of the American south

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#The_.22Confederate_flag.22

The US flag represents a country that did, at one time, practice slavery.
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Yes, and the Confederate Flag, at one time, practiced slavery. It does not nor has not in 150 years though... same as the rest of the United States.

This is like saying the German flag is as equally offensive as the swastika. I'm not sure if you're being sincere...
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That isn't anything like saying that. The German Flag and the Swastika Flag are not the same. False analogy.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Riveroaks said:
There is little difference between the Stars And Bars and the Swastika.

If you can make a valid argument for allowing the Swastika, then sure, the Stars And Bars should be tolerated also.
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The Swastika is a symbol revered by more than a billion people... learn.

How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it - BBC News

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The symbol of the Swastika and its 12,000-year-old history | Ancient Origins
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Boo Radley said:
Doesn't matter. People say the same thing concerning the swastika. And some see it that way. But for all practical purposes, the meaning has changed. Same with the confederate flag. Its a symbol of the confederacy, and their racist stance. It should never be displayed on a state building.
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I have studied a lot of history and never viewed it as a racist symbol first. When used by some it is obviously racist but it primarily represents the South.

And the Swastika as used by the Nazi's is not comparable to the Confederate Flag and I am sure you know why too. I am getting a little tired of people making that comparison.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
Um, we aren't debating a constellation, we are debating a CBF, the symbol of one of the worst chapters in US history.
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Worse than the US wiping out the Native Americans for 200 years? Worse than the US being a slave nation itself? Worse than making racism legal?

I can think of quite a few things that the United States did, as a nation, that are just as bad as the Slavery of the South that make the US Flag a horrible symbol of murder, enslavement and oppression as well.
 
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