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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
You still don't understand the argument.

We took an incident where everyone wanted to be a part of a greater discussion on race relations, and turned it into a pathetic argument against a symbol instead of making any real progress on race relations.

Im talking about the greater conversation, not the flag.
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Well, seeing as what i perceived to be your argument was that "removing the confederate flag did not help any black Americans in any way," is complete nonsense, i'm willing for you to supply a sensical one : ?

I'm sorry we ruined your little symbol for you, by informing you of its true, dark history ...?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
Well, seeing as what i perceived to be your argument was that "removing the confederate flag did not help any black Americans in any way," is complete nonsense, i'm willing for you to supply a sensical one : ?

I'm sorry we ruined your little symbol for you, by informing you of its true, dark history ...?
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So, you have no support that the removal of the flag will improve race relations and make life better for whites and blacks, and you also have no explanation for why this was the best way to turn something tragic into change for the black community.

Just the removal of a piece of cloth from a pole.

I see that you and Gimmiesometruth are still avoiding the issue. Was this the best "conversation on race relations" we could have had?

Its like this, With the Martin, Brown, Garner, and Gray incidents, the reactions of looting and rioting stole the show, and even after the facts turned out to be something completely different than what the major media story started to portray, we were all still told that "We still need to have a discussion on race" but we really couldn't because rioting and looting tend to turn people away from any sincerity in that regard.

And in this case, no rioting and looting happened, and what does our attention get turned to instead of this discussion we are always told that the country needs to have? A stupid flag.

And when I try to, at least in this thread, focus on what the media SHOULD have been focused on that would have had some real benefit......
...


I get troll responses like the above
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So, you have no support that the removal of the flag will improve race relations and make life better for whites and blacks, and you also have no explanation for why this was the best way to turn something tragic into change for the black community.

Just the removal of a piece of cloth from a pole.

I see that you and Gimmiesometruth are still avoiding the issue. Was this the best "conversation on race relations" we could have had?

Its like this, With the Martin, Brown, Garner, and Gray incidents, the reactions of looting and rioting stole the show, and even after the facts turned out to be something completely different than what the major media story started to portray, we were all still told that "We still need to have a discussion on race" but we really couldn't because rioting and looting tend to turn people away from any sincerity in that regard.

And in this case, no rioting and looting happened, and what does our attention get turned to instead of this discussion we are always told that the country needs to have? A stupid flag.

And when I try to, at least in this thread, focus on what the media SHOULD have been focused on that would have had some real benefit......
...


I get troll responses like the above
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Well i would LIKE if people in the south could swallow their southern pride and admit, as a group, "We did not realize that the flag holds such a dark and sordid history. We do not wish to taint our future with these values that we no longer share. We stand together in the rejection of racial oppression!"

Instead, we get pissy, stubborn southerners who try to excuse their symbol of racism and get angry that the north is "telling them what to do," again.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
Well i would LIKE if people in the south could swallow their southern pride and admit, as a group, "We did not realize that the flag holds such a dark and sordid history. We do not wish to taint our future with these values that we no longer share. We stand together in the rejection of racial oppression!"

Instead, we get pissy, stubborn southerners who try to excuse their symbol of racism and get angry that the north is "telling them what to do," again.
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I see the point is still well above your head.... try looking behind you on the floor back there and pick it up. No need to be choosy, as several versions of it are back there, since its gone over your head several times now.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
I see the point is still well above your head.... try looking behind you on the floor back there and pick it up. No need to be choosy, as several versions of it are back there, since its gone over your head several times now.
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I fear you may be hallucinating.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Boo Radley said:
No, that's what it represents. But what do you mean by abolish? From state houses, yes. But people are free to fly whatever they want.
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It partially represents that to some... racists. It represents a region and pride to far more though.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Athrawan said:
G'Day,mate. There are many flags that flew representing countries whose record on equality left much to be desired. The fundamental difference between those countries and the Confederate States of America, is that they did not make the slavery of another race a fundamental clause in their instrument of government, while the Confederacy made it integral to their Constituion.


The fundamental difference is that the Confederacy made the enslavement of another race an integral part of their Constitution. It stands to reason that the Confederate flag is as much a symbol of racism & the enslavement of an "inferior" race as the flag of Nazi Germany.
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The USA did with regards to Constitutional Racism in 1896...
The USA did with regards to Federal Statute Slavery in 1854.

The US Flag represents racism and going further back, slavery, at its core values, laws and principals.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So then you think that removing a flag from a pole is going to suddenly change people's hearts? Its going to make life better for blacks in America?
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Yep. Removal of evil symbols is more than just symbolic.

Im still waiting for the answer on what this does in the greater theme. So a local symbol of hate or heritage however you want to look at it was removed. That makes no actual measurable change in the life of black people.
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It's all part of step-by-step movement toward dealing with our horrible past. As we've learned recently we still have a long way to go. And people like you better get out the way.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
Well i would LIKE if people in the south could swallow their southern pride and admit, as a group, "We did not realize that the flag holds such a dark and sordid history. We do not wish to taint our future with these values that we no longer share. We stand together in the rejection of racial oppression!"

Instead, we get pissy, stubborn southerners who try to excuse their symbol of racism and get angry that the north is "telling them what to do," again.
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Why can't they stand together and reject racism and together make the Confederate Flag a new symbol of unity, healing and the future instead of being used as a scapegoat?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
Yep. Removal of evil symbols is more than just symbolic.
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So Billy Bob the racist is going to stop teaching racism to his children?
So Ricky Bobby the racist is going to thank black people for complaining about his beloved flag and embrace them as brothers?

You seriously think that removing the flag actually constitutes a tangible facet to healing?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
The USA did with regards to Constitutional Racism in 1896...
The USA did with regards to Federal Statute Slavery in 1854.

The US Flag represents racism and going further back, slavery, at its core values, laws and principals.
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Don't know what you're talking about in 1896 but the KS-NE Act of 1854 galvanized the anti-slavery movement in the North and rather than making slavery more likely in new territories, revealed how important it was to stop slavery sooner rather than later for the abolitionists. It's one of the ironies of the times is the south really thought that was a victory for slavery and it turned out to be the death knell. I wouldn't dare claim that the US flag has always been flown in honorable causes but with fits and starts the country it represents does keep trying to get it right.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
Don't know what you're talking about in 1896 but the KS-NE Act of 1854 galvanized the anti-slavery movement in the North and rather than making slavery more likely in new territories, revealed how important it was to stop slavery sooner rather than later for the abolitionists. It's one of the ironies of the times is the south really thought that was a victory for slavery and it turned out to be the death knell. I wouldn't dare claim that the US flag has always been flown in honorable causes but with fits and starts the country it represents does keep trying to get it right.
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Plessy v Ferguson. Created Separate but Equal.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
Like you give a **** about that.
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Of course.... only progressives and people who find racism in everything care about racism.

I actually care about whites and blacks getting along. Not blacks screaming at whites to understand just how racist whites are.

I care about 2 way communication.... not a one way dialogue.

But of course.... you have shown your ability to conduct civil debate by the above post.... So I'll just refrain from continuing conversation with you.

Good Day!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
The USA did with regards to Constitutional Racism in 1896...
The USA did with regards to Federal Statute Slavery in 1854.

The US Flag represents racism and going further back, slavery, at its core values, laws and principals.
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Not really. Not primarily.

The confederate flag primarily represents slavery.

The US flag represents a country that did, at one time, practice slavery.

This is like saying the German flag is as equally offensive as the swastika. I'm not sure if you're being sincere...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Of course.... only progressives and people who find racism in everything care about racism.

I actually care about whites and blacks getting along. Not blacks screaming at whites to understand just how racist whites are.

I care about 2 way communication.... not a one way dialogue.

But of course.... you have shown your ability to conduct civil debate by the above post.... So I'll just refrain from continuing conversation with you.

Good Day!
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I can't speculate on all of your social views.

But i do not agree with your defense of the confederate flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

There is little difference between the Stars And Bars and the Swastika.

If you can make a valid argument for allowing the Swastika, then sure, the Stars And Bars should be tolerated also.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Riveroaks said:
There is little difference between the Stars And Bars and the Swastika.

If you can make a valid argument for allowing the Swastika, then sure, the Stars And Bars should be tolerated also.
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I could make a valid argument for *allowing* the Swastika.... Its called the 1st amendment.

I could also make a valid argument in support of the Swastika itself..... just so long as it isn't plastered on the red and white backdrop of the Nazi Germany flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
It partially represents that to some... racists. It represents a region and pride to far more though.
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Doesn't matter. People say the same thing concerning the swastika. And some see it that way. But for all practical purposes, the meaning has changed. Same with the confederate flag. Its a symbol of the confederacy, and their racist stance. It should never be displayed on a state building.
 
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