View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #641
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The South had no justification in the first place to do anything that they did. So yes my ancestors in the South were being assholes.
    That's like saying the colonists had no right to break away from England. Just as silly
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Ya know..i cant even get 4 co-workers to agree on where to go for lunch but..somehow..the whole nation,in a matter of hours, decided to all ban the dixie flag...amazing.

  3. #643
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bram Vulk View Post
    Ya know..i cant even get 4 co-workers to agree on where to go for lunch but..somehow..the whole nation,in a matter of hours, decided to all ban the dixie flag...amazing.
    Yep political correctness run amuck
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  4. #644
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think the difference is the Nazi flag and the swastika are symbols of the Nazi Party. Neither were ever the symbols of Germany. Therefore, they stood for everything Hitler stood for.

    The confederate flag was actually the flag of the southern states of this country. While they did some terrible things, such as slavery, they did some very nice things too. It was the flag of all the people, not just the ideology of slave ownership.

    I don't know what the right thing to do on this is. I see both sides, honestly. On the one hand, a lot of southerners look at it as a symbol of their heritage with no malice intended, and it would be too bad to take that away from them. On the other hand, a lot of African Americans look at it as a symbol of slavery, and they have a legitimate reason to do so.

    I guess where I fall on this issue is I want the flag gone, but I want it to happen organically within the Southern states. I don't want Obama or anyone from the North pushing this, it would be so much more meaningful if the South gave it up on their own without being prodded.
    True, but it hasn't happened for years. It unfortunately has had a resurgence. It will not go without the South fighting it. That is unfortunate.
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  5. #645
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    True, but it hasn't happened for years. It unfortunately has had a resurgence. It will not go without the South fighting it. That is unfortunate.
    If you listen closely you can hear Confederate generals and soldiers alike spinning in their graves
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  6. #646
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The South had no justification in the first place to do anything that they did. So yes my ancestors in the South were being assholes.
    Neither the CSA (their primary cause for leaving was slavery, a slowly dying institution economically and morally- even in the American south) nor the USA (pursuing a power poltics dispute "all or nothing" style) were justified.

    In the end, however, it was the Union that launched an illegal war of aggression against states either taking a constitutionally permissable course of action, or who in some cases were sympathetic to others doing so and in other cases, might have potentially seceeded.

  7. #647
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    That's like saying the colonists had no right to break away from England. Just as silly
    The Thirteen Colonies wanted to break away in order to form a Democratic Republic, the first country founded with a true commitment to such values, in order to fight rule from London. There was no representation in Parliament, the Colonies were largely subject to impositions from appointed Governors, they risked the sudden imposition of Crown directives which had broad powers to override the will of the elected local legislatures, etc. More important is that regardless of the technical grievances that the colonists gave the result of the American Revolution was the creation of the first true Democratic Republic committed to the expansion of liberty.

    The Southern States wanted to break away from a Democratic Republic because of fears that Northern economic and political power would imperil their 'peculiar institution' of slavery. The Confederacy was designed from its inception to be a white supremacist state aimed at ensuring that its black population could never rise to any modicum of real liberty. Further, the successful secession of the Confederacy would have imperiled the cause of democracy worldwide by validating the allegations that critics had hurled at the manifest 'instability' of the democratic experiment and by creating an American continent riven by perpetual tension and war.

  8. #648
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The Thirteen Colonies wanted to break away in order to form a Democratic Republic, the first country founded with a true commitment to such values, in order to fight rule from London. There was no representation in Parliament, the Colonies were largely subject to impositions from appointed Governors, they risked the sudden imposition of Crown directives which had broad powers to override the will of the elected local legislatures, etc. More important is that regardless of the technical grievances that the colonists gave the result of the American Revolution was the creation of the first true Democratic Republic committed to the expansion of liberty.

    The Southern States wanted to break away from a Democratic Republic because of fears that Northern economic and political power would imperil their 'peculiar institution' of slavery. The Confederacy was designed from its inception to be a white supremacist state aimed at ensuring that its black population could never rise to any modicum of real liberty. Further, the successful secession of the Confederacy would have imperiled the cause of democracy worldwide by validating the allegations that critics had hurled at the manifest 'instability' of the democratic experiment and by creating an American continent riven by perpetual tension and war.
    It was more like the north was taxing them to death to pay for the War of 1812. Not to mention that slavery was also fairly widespread up north, and there was no way Lincoln was gonna let the blacks stay here. His plan was to send them all back to Africa. In fact he didn't care if slavery existed or not, as long as he kept the South from exercising their right to leave.
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  9. #649
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The Thirteen Colonies wanted to break away in order to form a Democratic Republic, the first country founded with a true commitment to such values, in order to fight rule from London. There was no representation in Parliament, the Colonies were largely subject to impositions from appointed Governors, they risked the sudden imposition of Crown directives which had broad powers to override the will of the elected local legislatures, etc. More important is that regardless of the technical grievances that the colonists gave the result of the American Revolution was the creation of the first true Democratic Republic committed to the expansion of liberty.

    The Southern States wanted to break away from a Democratic Republic because of fears that Northern economic and political power would imperil their 'peculiar institution' of slavery. The Confederacy was designed from its inception to be a white supremacist state aimed at ensuring that its black population could never rise to any modicum of real liberty. Further, the successful secession of the Confederacy would have imperiled the cause of democracy worldwide by validating the allegations that critics had hurled at the manifest 'instability' of the democratic experiment and by creating an American continent riven by perpetual tension and war.
    The North was not innocent of this. In fact, "No Irish or Dogs need apply." The north was horrifically racist for a VERY long time. Slavery wasn't a danger to their liberty. It was a danger to their pocket books. The only reason the north didn't remain the way it was...was because the green back was more important than the skin color.

    I would even argue that the move westward is the proof that slavery was crippling to the pocket book of middle class voters and business owners and farmers. They wouldn't gain money from slavery. They were still racist to Blacks. They just cared more about money.
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  10. #650
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    It was more like the north was taxing them to death to pay for the War of 1812. Not to mention that slavery was also fairly widespread up north, and there was no way Lincoln was gonna let the blacks stay here. His plan was to send them all back to Africa. In fact he didn't care if slavery existed or not, as long as he kept the South from exercising their right to leave.
    So it is your contention that the South seceded because it was being 'taxed to death' as the result of war debts incurred from the War of 1812? I would love to hear an explanation for that line of reasoning. Further, no slavery was not 'widespread' throughout the North. In the years immediately preceding the Civil War slavery had been abolished in every northern state except for Delaware and Maryland. Finally, the entire Republican Party had its genesis in opposition to Slavery, the expansion of 'Free State' boundaries and the eventual rollback and abolition of slavery. That in the 1850's people were simultaneously anti-slavery and bigoted shouldn't be shocking nor does it have any bearing on the issue.

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