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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
Nothing that you'd like more than for us to ignored those murders in Charleston, right? You think I haven't run up against your kind a thousand times, friend?
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Nobody is asking you to ignore the murders in Charleston. However, as usual national media took an opportunity to do some good for race relations and turned it into a pedantic debate over meaningless symbology and became divisive rather than putting forth any effort to improve race relations.

The removal of the flag isn't going to change a damned thing.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
meaningless symbology
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It is so meaningless...that the Confederates are defending it.....and those who understand what it represents want it removed from state endorsement.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
That's a pretty weak defense of him even if it's true. It was the same with Reagan and Iran-Contra. If he didn't know about it, it bespeaks massive incompetence so it's hardly an absolution. I agree with the the fact that Bush's lieutenants were the driving force behind the massive failure of Iraq but to argue that he was just a puppet makes his role almost worse in my view. Yes, it was obvious he was never adequate for the job to begin with but that does relieve him of the responsibility that he took on. And I totally agree with your closing comment.
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You're right. But i don't think President Bush should go to federal prison for being incompetent. He still shares some responsibility, he should have brought these crooks to justice a long time ago.

One of my co-workers is a staunch conservative. He criticizes President Obama for a lack of leadership. He says Obama simply lets everyone else talk until it becomes obvious what to do.

He said President Bush had great leadership qualities. He said Bush will gather his advisors, listen to what they say, and make a decision.

Frankly, i was too embarrassed on his behalf to point out the glaring parallels between the two, save that Bush behaved plainly as a puppet, and Obama hails from the wrong side of the aisle.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
It is so meaningless...that the Confederates are defending it.....and those who understand what it represents want it removed from state endorsement.
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How about you bother to respond to my actual message rather than just two words, huh?

Quit being nit picky and avoiding the overall discussion eh?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
How about you bother to respond to my actual message rather than just two words, huh?

Quit being nit picky and avoiding the overall discussion eh?
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I'm addressing a central claim, that the Confederate BF is a meaningless symbol. If you do not care to support this claim that is obviously false from 2 perspectives, that is your prerogative.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
You're the one who said there's no difference between what the US flag and the flag of slavery stand for, not I.



Now you're just flailing and throwing your own poo. There's an internet term for people (like you) who pretend to care about the plight of, in this case, violence in the parts black community by attacking the character and behavior of the entire black community--it's called "concern troll." By trying to deflect the topic of a horrendous race murder to the very different problem of black-on-black crime (which all people like you do is sit back and enjoy rather than actually care about) they reveal the ugly streak of racism every time. It seems to be so ingrained that the carrier of it can't avoid expressing it and will turn around and deny it despite the evidence right there for all the world to see.
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I dont getn utraged or 'shame' over history. I think its hysterical that people like you do. The US history is not without ugliness. So is the history of the Confederacy. So for that matter is the history of the Indians. What IS rather telling is the number of pathetic puppets who, 6 weeks ago, wouldnt have given the Confederate flag a second thought and today are filled with hate and outrage. You are the '99%'...the rebels without a ****ing clue. You wander the globe like the walking dead looking for a cause to champion. And the suddenly you react like it actually ****ing matters to you. Meanwhile...

YOU STILL are completely vacant when it comes to the things that actually MATTER to the black American community. Which says all anyone will ever need to know about people like you.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
Nothing that you'd like more than for us to ignored those murders in Charleston, right? You think I haven't run up against your kind a thousand times, friend?
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Dont CONTINUE to act stupid pal. By all means...learn from the 9 lives lost. Learn about love and compassion and forgiveness and healing. Oh...wait...no...you would rather splash in the blood and celebrate your ridiculous little 'cause'. Meanwhile...how many black lives have been lost SINCE that tragic day in Charleston? Where have you been on those lost lives?

Its rhetorical BTW...you dont have to answer. Dont embarrass yourself further by pretending to give a ****.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
I'm addressing a central claim, that the Confederate BF is a meaningless symbol. If you do not care to support this claim that is obviously false from 2 perspectives, that is your prerogative.
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So... as typical. Nobody seems to have a response to the fact that the debate over the flag is meaningless to race relations.

Got it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So... as typical. Nobody seems to have a response to the fact that the debate over the flag is meaningless to race relations.

Got it.
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How do you reach this conclusion when the flag is a representation of a system of black subjugation, a symbol still used today for that purpose.....that even the Gov of SC was able to acknowledge this point?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
How do you reach this conclusion when the flag is a representation of a system of black subjugation, a symbol still used today for that purpose.....that even the Gov of SC was able to acknowledge this point?
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So then, what measurable improvement to race relations will be accomplished from having a debate over a flag???
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So then, what measurable improvement to race relations will be accomplished from having a debate over a flag???
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Debate over the flag? A moment ago you created a "proving the negative" argument of:

"The removal of the flag isn't going to change a damned thing."

A convenient argument you cannot defend, because one cannot prove a negative, but now you have reduced your argument to "measurements over the effect of debate" of removal. I can say that debate does establish those who wish keep symbols of a slave system flying on state property, it establishes those who want to deny the symbolism of said slave systems.

Are you always going to shift your argument at the first sign of opposition?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
Debate over the flag? A moment ago you created a "proving the negative" argument of:

"The removal of the flag isn't going to change a damned thing."

A convenient argument you cannot defend, because one cannot prove a negative, but now you have reduced your argument to "measurements over the effect of debate" of removal. I can say that debate does establish those who wish keep symbols of a slave system flying on state property, it establishes those who want to deny the symbolism of said slave systems.

Are you always going to shift your argument at the first sign of opposition?
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So, then... you have no response.... You keep dodging the point by trying to bring up other ****.

You got called out on avoiding the debate by focusing on two words and now you are scrambling to keep the focus away from the more important issue.

Why is that?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So, then... you have no response.... You keep dodging the point by trying to bring up other ****.
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On the contrary, I addressed both of your "points" and one you avoided earlier, and countered all of them.

You got called out on avoiding the debate by focusing on two words and now you are scrambling to keep the focus away from the more important issue.
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Again, I answered all and countered all, your complaining about the points I countered is not a sign of me avoiding anything, but it is in fact a hypocritical action of your avoiding a countering argument.

Why is that?
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I have no I idea why you avoid answering the counterarguments, but everyone has their reasons.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Nobody is asking you to ignore the murders in Charleston. However, as usual national media took an opportunity to do some good for race relations and turned it into a pedantic debate over meaningless symbology and became divisive rather than putting forth any effort to improve race relations.

The removal of the flag isn't going to change a damned thing.
Click to expand...

It's certainly meaningful for the white supremacists who cling to their mythology about the south. And it means slavery, murder, repression and brutality to the descendants of the people that lived under it (and to the rest of the country that knows what it really stood for instead of the candy-coated turd that white supremacists have been sucking on for the last 150 years). Taking it down from every public display in this country will mean that government at all levels no longer accepts that load of ****. It sends a very strong rebuke to people who are fighting tooth and nail against taking it down.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
I dont getn utraged or 'shame' over history.
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Of course you don't. Because you don't accept the truth about that history but prefer what I like to call the candy-coat turd of the mythology that white supremacists have created about slavery, the war and the 150 years of continued brutalization of blacks in the south after they were "set free."
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
Meanwhile...how many black lives have been lost SINCE that tragic day in Charleston? Where have you been on those lost lives?
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Quit shaming yourself pretending you care about a single black life much less all of them. Like I said, this tack comes directly from the pukefunnel of rightwing filth fed daily from FartzNooz and plenty of other sewage outlets and I've seen it over and over from rightwingers as a way they think they can deflect the topic away from their racism and white supremacists disease. Aintagonna wash, "pal."
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So... as typical. Nobody seems to have a response to the fact that the debate over the flag is meaningless to race relations.

Got it.
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That seems to be the racists' view of it. Get that.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
It's certainly meaningful for the white supremacists who cling to their mythology about the south. And it means slavery, murder, repression and brutality to the descendants of the people that lived under it (and to the rest of the country that knows what it really stood for instead of the candy-coated turd that white supremacists have been sucking on for the last 150 years). Taking it down from every public display in this country will mean that government at all levels no longer accepts that load of ****. It sends a very strong rebuke to people who are fighting tooth and nail against taking it down.
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And that is all good and all, but what is that going to do for race relations?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
That seems to be the racists' view of it. Get that.
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So then you think that removing a flag from a pole is going to suddenly change people's hearts? Its going to make life better for blacks in America?

Im still waiting for the answer on what this does in the greater theme. So a local symbol of hate or heritage however you want to look at it was removed. That makes no actual measurable change in the life of black people.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
On the contrary, I addressed both of your "points" and one you avoided earlier, and countered all of them.

Again, I answered all and countered all, your complaining about the points I countered is not a sign of me avoiding anything, but it is in fact a hypocritical action of your avoiding a countering argument.

I have no I idea why you avoid answering the counterarguments, but everyone has their reasons.
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You addressed the point? I failed to see that. All I saw was repetitive diatribe of how evil and racist the southern cross is. We get it.

But how does this change the life of black people? How does this improve white and black community relationships? Are racist white people going to stop acting on their racism by terrorizing blacks? Are victim status blacks going to stop finding racism in everything? Or will they keep pushing to continue more removals and bans on objects, words, and opinions that they find offensive rather than having real discussions on some of the problems affecting relationships between the races?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
So then you think that removing a flag from a pole is going to suddenly change people's hearts? Its going to make life better for blacks in America?

Im still waiting for the answer on what this does in the greater theme. So a local symbol of hate or heritage however you want to look at it was removed. That makes no actual measurable change in the life of black people.
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Having a state government garnish their property with a symbol of slavery, a symbol that has intimidated black Americans for generations, is not acceptable. We believe that all men are created equal. The symbols we choose to represent ourselves must reflect that.

If you are trying to argue that taking the flag down is supposed to instantaneously cure all racial woes, you're arguing with yourself, because no one here has claimed that, to the best of my knowledge.

If you try to justify leaving it up, flying in the air, you will find yourself with no ground to stand on, as has everyone else who has taken that stance.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
Having a state government garnish their property with a symbol of slavery, a symbol that has intimidated black Americans for generations, is not acceptable. We believe that all men are created equal. The symbols we choose to represent ourselves must reflect that.

If you are trying to argue that taking the flag down is supposed to instantaneously cure all racial woes, you're arguing with yourself, because no one here has claimed that, to the best of my knowledge.

If you try to justify leaving it up, flying in the air, you will find yourself with no ground to stand on, as has everyone else who has taken that stance.
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You still don't understand the argument.

We took an incident where everyone wanted to be a part of a greater discussion on race relations, and turned it into a pathetic argument against a symbol instead of making any real progress on race relations.

Im talking about the greater conversation, not the flag.
 
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