View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #631
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh, I see, we are going to divert to the argument for perfection. That is cute. I view it this way, we are nation with the stated goal of equality under the law and have been working towards this goal. The Confederacy was not founded on that goal, in fact is was based on the opposite belief that Blacks were inferior to Whites. We should not endorse a system with that ideology.

    I never made the claim the US, its policies or action have been perfect (they haven't) or are the best (they are not), but then that wasn't the premise...was it?

    PS...you are really off-base if you think I am going to defend the policies of Johnson/Nixon or of GWB. But the defending of South Korea from becoming enslaved under NK regimes, I am fine with Truman going forward and pushing NK back to the 39th.
    I just noticed that I was quoted in your sig... nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  2. #632
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

    I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.
    It should not be abolished.But at the same time it the only flags that have any business flying on government buildings are the United States of America flag and the flag of the state that government building is in.If it is a museum or parade then that is a different thing. I realize that to a lot of Americans it is a sign of southern pride much the same way the Irish flag is a sign of Irish pride.But like the Irish Flag the confederate flag is a forign country's flag and there for should not be flown on government buildings. At the same time it should be the choice of the people in that state and not that of scumbags trying to exploit a tragedy whether or not that flag stays or goes.

    I could care less if some people see it as a racist symbol, heck many people see the American flag as a racist symbol. But many of those same people who see these flags as a symbol of racism and or oppression will freely fly a communist or socialist flag,defend socialism and or communism, wear Che Guevara t-shirts, defend our relations with middle eastern countries that kill homosexuals and people who join other religions and treat women like garbage, support oppressive reigns like China, Cuba and other similar countries and think Mao Sae tung, Karl Marx, Margaret Sanger, Bill Ayers and other degenerate racists,terrorists and or oppressive scum are good people.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #633
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The Confederates could never actually organize because they had the same problem that the US had under the articles of confederation. But at one point they tried to take Washington DC. But yea a war is going to be fought defencively when you are way over powered and your chain of command sucks balls.
    The strategic war goal of the union was to force the CSA back into the via invasion union. Meanwhile the fundamental war goal of the confederacy was simply to leave. Thus, individual battles aside, the CSA was fighting strategically a defensive war.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Article 10 isnt a free ticket for the States to be assholes.
    Assholes?

    Good grief, I cant think of anything more "asshole' ish" than launching a perfectly avoidable war of aggression simply to win a political dispute because states via an accepted democratic process* elected to leave a union that the founding document of the nation says is a voluntary union (article 10)

    The level of "assholeness" is DC was magnified by the fact that armed invasion was not the Union's only option. They could have conducted a diplomatic hearts and minds campaign to bring less that fully committed NC, TN and VI back. This campaign could have been backed by alot of economic carrots and sticks. In all probablity, it would have been successfu- espescially given the fact that plantation slavery was going to go uneconomical in about 20 years. Even a few states re-joining the union would have led to alot of other states to reconsider their CSA membership. But no, the jerks decided that armed invasion was the only possibility..... .

    Now, if the war of a aggression was laucnhed to emancipate slaves, I would agree with you. But that simply was not the case.

    *Yes, there was some Confederate electioneering in TN to get the desired outcome, but this was mirrored by Federal electioneering in Missouri, KY and MD.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 06-29-15 at 05:55 PM.

  4. #634
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I didn't say that slavery was nuanced... would you like to try again?
    Why should I try again when I hit it out of the park the first time.
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  5. #635
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why should I try again when I hit it out of the park the first time.
    I was not talking about slavery being nuanced... that is why. This FAIL is pretty epic though.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  6. #636
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The strategic war goal of the union was to force the CSA back into the via invasion union. Meanwhile the fundamental war goal of the confederacy was simply to leave. Thus, individual battles aside, the CSA was fighting strategically a defensive war.


    Assholes?

    Good grief, I cant think of anything more "asshole' ish" than launching a perfectly avoidable war of aggression simply to win a political dispute because states via an accepted democratic process* elected to leave a union that the founding document of the nation says is a voluntary union (article 10)

    The level of "assholeness" is DC was magnified by the fact that armed invasion was not the Union's only option. They could have conducted a diplomatic hearts and minds campaign to bring less that fully committed NC, TN and VI back. This campaign could have been backed by alot of economic carrots and sticks. In all probablity, it would have been successfu- espescially given the fact that plantation slavery was going to go uneconomical in about 20 years. Even a few states re-joining the union would have led to alot of other states to reconsider their CSA membership. But no, the jerks decided that armed invasion was the only possibility..... .

    Now, if the war of a aggression was laucnhed to emancipate slaves, I would agree with you. But that simply was not the case.

    *Yes, there was some Confederate electioneering in TN to get the desired outcome, but this was mirrored by Federal electioneering in Missouri, KY and MD.
    The South had no justification in the first place to do anything that they did. So yes my ancestors in the South were being assholes.

  7. #637
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    Never said two wrongs make a right. I only said that defenders of the Norths aggression is not doing so from a moral high ground. Also I understand that the flag was moved from the state capitol to the memorial, if it was still flying atop of the capital I would agree that it's an inappropriate location.
    There isnt any North or South unless you live back in the Civil War days.

    The current location is no better than the flying the flag on the Dome. It is just semantics having it placed where it is. People get to say that the Battle flag isnt on the actual building, and claim it is just part of a Civil War memorial. But nothing really changed and people have noticed that fact. You can deny it all that you want but the flag is none the less on the State building grounds and is a very predominant feature. In other words same flag just a different location because people complained.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 06-30-15 at 12:27 AM.

  8. #638
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    So everybody who is in favor of the flag, let me ask you this.

    What if you were Jewish, and everywhere you turned, you saw a flag with a swastika on it? It was flying over your capitol building It was on the license plate of your car that you had to pay Ad Velorum tax to have. Everytime you went shopping, it was on t shirts and beer cozies and flying from the backs of giant 4 wheel drives.

    How would that make you feel?

    Both are symbols of hate and divisiveness. I would only hope that if that ever happened to any of you, you wouldn't be called a crybaby.
    I think the difference is the Nazi flag and the swastika are symbols of the Nazi Party. Neither were ever the symbols of Germany. Therefore, they stood for everything Hitler stood for.

    The confederate flag was actually the flag of the southern states of this country. While they did some terrible things, such as slavery, they did some very nice things too. It was the flag of all the people, not just the ideology of slave ownership.

    I don't know what the right thing to do on this is. I see both sides, honestly. On the one hand, a lot of southerners look at it as a symbol of their heritage with no malice intended, and it would be too bad to take that away from them. On the other hand, a lot of African Americans look at it as a symbol of slavery, and they have a legitimate reason to do so.

    I guess where I fall on this issue is I want the flag gone, but I want it to happen organically within the Southern states. I don't want Obama or anyone from the North pushing this, it would be so much more meaningful if the South gave it up on their own without being prodded.

  9. #639
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Neither were ever the symbols of Germany.
    The Nazi flag was the national flag of Germany from 1935 to 1945.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I was not talking about slavery being nuanced... that is why. This FAIL is pretty epic though.
    Lets examine the post and quotes

    here is my post 558 with you in it

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    She doesn't understand the chronology of dates... how do you expect her to deal with more nuanced concepts?
    and my response
    What exactly is NUANCED about slavery of a race of people?
    What exactly is your problem with that? What do you claim was being discussed if not the Confederate flag of the topic and what it stands for?
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-30-15 at 05:13 AM.
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