View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #621

    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    It would seem for some people that you cannot acknowledge known historical facts about the Confederacy, slavery, racists, anti Americans, and their direct involvement with the rebel/Confederate battle flag without being called a Leftist or politically correct or whatever lame excuse for flying a flag that is the direct representation of a army formed to overthrow the USA. Doesnt it strike anyone as being unpatriotic?

    I stand for the right of every American individual to fly whatever silly flag that they want. I also assert that public buildings should not fly a flag that represents the Confederacy unless its a museum of some sort. This is the USA not the CSA.
    Actually the south did not try to overthrow the north. They elected to separate from the north and establish their own centralized government because they could not agree on a host of different things including but not limited solely to slavery. The north iniated the use of force to prevent the secession. The north also has no moral high ground when you look at the inhumane tactics they engaged in to keep the south in the union.

    Many would argue the civil war was more about greed than it was about morality. The south did not want to give up their slaves and the North did not want to lose the taxes paid by the south to the Fed's.

  2. #622
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    Actually the south did not try to overthrow the north. They elected to separate from the north and establish their own centralized government because they could not agree on a host of different things including but not limited solely to slavery. The north iniated the use of force to prevent the secession. The north also has no moral high ground when you look at the inhumane tactics they engaged in to keep the south in the union.

    Many would argue the civil war was more about greed than it was about morality. The south did not want to give up their slaves and the North did not want to lose the taxes paid by the south to the Fed's.
    Actually The South engaged in a insurrection. The South at no time were being passive. They were not just going their own way. The Confederate states would have kept trying to take over the USA if their Confederate form of government hadnt sucked so bad.

    Either way the Confederate flag is a symbol of failure, slavery, and anti Americanism. Yes it has historical significance but no matter how you spin it, the Confederate flag is not and never has been American. The Civil War was indeed bad for all sides, and had the South not been dicks the Civil War would not have happened.

  3. #623

    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Actually The South engaged in a insurrection. The South at no time were being passive. They were not just going their own way. The Confederate states would have kept trying to take over the USA if their Confederate form of government hadnt sucked so bad.

    Either way the Confederate flag is a symbol of failure, slavery, and anti Americanism. Yes it has historical significance but no matter how you spin it, the Confederate flag is not and never has been American. The Civil War was indeed bad for all sides, and had the South not been dicks the Civil War would not have happened.
    I never claimed otherwise. I only lyrics pointed out that the north behaved like "dicks" too. Look up Sherman's March then get back to me about how righteous the north was.

    As for the Confederate flag goes, it's my understanding that it is not flown on any state capitol buildings. It is flown over civil war monuments. It's not being displayed in the inappropriate manner that many are painting it to be.

  4. #624
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Ok.

    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/l...-shops/311540/

    This is wrong. You don't remove the flag from battlefields or historical landmarks that were southern. That isn't about southern pride. That is one side trying to white wash history for the public agenda.

    Wtf? There is a legitimate historical significance to have these flags there. It is there to represent a strife that resulted in many American deaths. As divide that our nation was lucky to overcome. Taking that flag down defiles the reason men fought and died.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  5. #625
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    The framers may have not expressly banned secession of states in the Constitution, but they sure did ban confederation of states. The CSA was a violation of Aricle I sec. 10

    Section 10.

    No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

    No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

    No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.
    And seceeding states would do none of those things as they were no longer "states" in the constitutional sense. Article I sec. 10 bascially tells member states that you are either completely "in" or completely "out", there is no middle ground. In the case of the CSA, they wanted completely out.

    When viewed agaisnt the "out or "in" context, the article in question makes perfect sense as allowing member states to be "some what in, but also out" would make the nation ungovernable.

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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    True but they didnt allow it either.


    You would do good to learn some history. The spring of 1861 was the very beginning of the Civil War. History shows that there was indeed a plan to take over.
    OK, after the union invaded the south, there were some largely fantasy plans about siezing federal territories, but not states. This does nothing to change the fact that the CSA fought a defensive war.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    True but they didnt allow it either.
    The founding fahters did state in Article 10 that:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

    Thus, as secession is not banned by the constitution, it is a power reserved to the states (so long as they adhere to the principle of "fully in" or "completely out"). Face it, Lincoln launched an illegal war of aggression.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 06-29-15 at 10:38 AM.

  7. #627
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    OK, after the union invaded the south, there were some largely fantasy plans about siezing federal territories, but not states. This does nothing to change the fact that the CSA fought a defensive war.
    The Confederates could never actually organize because they had the same problem that the US had under the articles of confederation. But at one point they tried to take Washington DC. But yea a war is going to be fought defencively when you are way over powered and your chain of command sucks balls.



    The founding fahters did state in Article 10 that:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

    Thus, as secession is not banned by the constitution, it is a power reserved to the states (so long as they adhere to the principle of "fully in" or "completely out"). Face it, Lincoln launched an illegal war of aggression.
    Article 10 isnt a free ticket for the States to be assholes.

  8. #628
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    I never claimed otherwise. I only lyrics pointed out that the north behaved like "dicks" too. Look up Sherman's March then get back to me about how righteous the north was.
    That wont work at all. Two wrongs dont make a right.

    As for the Confederate flag goes, it's my understanding that it is not flown on any state capitol buildings. It is flown over civil war monuments. It's not being displayed in the inappropriate manner that many are painting it to be.[/QUOTE] The reason that the Confederate monument exists is because the Confederate flag was removed from the dome as part of the South Carolina Heritage Act of 2000. It is still on the grounds of the State building, hell its front and center. All that they did is manipulate the laws in order to keep the flag flying.

  9. #629

    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    That wont work at all. Two wrongs dont make a right.

    As for the Confederate flag goes, it's my understanding that it is not flown on any state capitol buildings. It is flown over civil war monuments. It's not being displayed in the inappropriate manner that many are painting it to be.
    The reason that the Confederate monument exists is because the Confederate flag was removed from the dome as part of the South Carolina Heritage Act of 2000. It is still on the grounds of the State building, hell its front and center. All that they did is manipulate the laws in order to keep the flag flying.[/QUOTE]
    Never said two wrongs make a right. I only said that defenders of the Norths aggression is not doing so from a moral high ground. Also I understand that the flag was moved from the state capitol to the memorial, if it was still flying atop of the capital I would agree that it's an inappropriate location.

  10. #630
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What exactly is NUANCED about slavery of a race of people?
    I didn't say that slavery was nuanced... would you like to try again?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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