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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

My family was all racist. I was, too - it took a career in service to my country to unlearn what they had taught me. Speaking of truth, then, do you believe that the vice president of the Confederacy was right when he said these words:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

But you won't reply, or if you do, it won't be seriously or thoughtfully. People like you almost never have the intestinal fortitude to do so.

For the times, he was right, given the climate of the South in the 1850's. One thing I have learned about history is that it needs to be seen through the eyes of the times. See what people tend to do is apply today's standards to history. No wonder things get taken out of context and people demonized. Take the Presidents for instance. GWB, perfect example. He went into Iraq thinking the intelligence we had was correct (it likely was) but now 12 years later, we ask where was his head? I think Saddam had WMD's there somewhere, but had them hid somewhere so the UN inspectors wouldn't find them.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Um, last I recall, it was the South that first attacked the North.

Oh, wait, I forgot - to you, everything that doesn't fit in with your fantasy that it really was the War of Northern Aggression must not be true.

No the North invaded the South. We stood our ground.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

For the times, he was right, given the climate of the South in the 1850's. One thing I have learned about history is that it needs to be seen through the eyes of the times. See what people tend to do is apply today's standards to history. No wonder things get taken out of context and people demonized. Take the Presidents for instance. GWB, perfect example. He went into Iraq thinking the intelligence we had was correct (it likely was) but now 12 years later, we ask where was his head? I think Saddam had WMD's there somewhere, but had them hid somewhere so the UN inspectors wouldn't find them.

You really don't get it, do you? By the time the Civil War started, ALL the developed nations of the world - including all the great nations of Europe - had banned our abolished slavery in their home nations (though not quite in all their colonies yet). It was becoming seen as more and more disgusting and shameful throughout the developed world...and America was changing, too. The South just didn't want to change along with the rest of the world.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Fort Sumter was ours! We had already seceded and taken our property with us.

Fort Sumter was - like all military bases then and now - Federal territory.

Face it, ma'am - you're so deeply steeped in what you were taught likely since birth that it's difficult for you to accept what really happened. I can say this because I really do know how you feel - because it's the same way I felt whenever people told me what the Civil War and the Confederacy were really about, what my family and my schools in the South NEVER taught me.

You're only repeating what you were taught...and you're having a really hard time accepting that there was a great deal that you were not taught - part of which was that yes, the secession and the war that followed were at their base about slavery.

So you have a choice - you can either accept that there was so much that you weren't taught, that you honestly didn't realize that the secession and the Civil War was about slavery, and that the South's deeply-entrenched (and still extant) tradition of racism is a shameful thing indeed...or you can choose to cling to what you were told, even in the face of the words of the politicians of the time, words that disprove the beliefs you seem to cherish so deeply.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yeah - that's right.

So you racist? You identified you were racist? And then you decided to take penance by a job of great servitude to your country? ...

Man they did a number on you.:lamo
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Fort Sumter was ours! We had already seceded and taken our property with us.

South Carolina had ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. All rights. It was Federal Property. Belonging to ALL of the US.

You don't get to just steal Federal property and call it your own.

The South commenced hostilities, fired cannons on Union ships, seized Federal buildings, Forts, arsenals, Custom's Houses all across the South, and committed Acts of War --

*months* before Lincoln ever stepped into office.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So you racist? You identified you were racist? And then you decided to take penance by a job of great servitude to your country? ...

Man they did a number on you.:lamo

I was raised as a racist - though we never called ourselves such - and it was only during my Navy career that I learned how wrong it was, and it was then that I began to unlearn the racism I'd been taught by my family.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I was raised as a racist - though we never called ourselves such - and it was only during my Navy career that I learned how wrong it was, and it was then that I began to unlearn the racism I'd been taught by my family.

Yes the Navy can really indoctrinate you.

They say you rebel when you hit adolescence but then return to your roots at 40 so maybe you'll end up racist again?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bingoooooo!

civilwarbingo.jpg

Many of those are true. lol.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yes the Navy can really indoctrinate you.

They say you rebel when you hit adolescence but then return to your roots at 40 so maybe you'll end up racist again?

You really should learn to be careful about what "they say". I'm in my fifties now.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Fort Sumter was ours! We had already seceded and taken our property with us.

Sorry, but that isn't true. What you can say however was that Lincoln was too hardheaded over the issue and instead of listening to his advisers and ordering the men back north he decided to play hardball and fail to recognize that the best course of action at the time was to remove all soldiers from the land. Doing otherwise in that situation was likely to make the enemy feel threatened by the US miltary presence in their territory and increase the chances of war.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Sorry, but that isn't true. What you can say however was that Lincoln was too hardheaded over the issue and instead of listening to his advisers and ordering the men back north he decided to play hardball and fail to recognize that the best course of action at the time was to remove all soldiers from the land. Doing otherwise in that situation was likely to make the enemy feel threatened by the US miltary presence in their territory and increase the chances of war.

We know Lincoln was hardheaded.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

South Carolina had ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836. All rights. It was Federal Property. Belonging to ALL of the US.

You don't get to just steal Federal property and call it your own.

The South commenced hostilities, fired cannons on Union ships, seized Federal buildings, Forts, arsenals, Custom's Houses all across the South, and committed Acts of War --

*months* before Lincoln ever stepped into office.

Yep we were leaving and that was that.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You really don't get it, do you? By the time the Civil War started, ALL the developed nations of the world - including all the great nations of Europe - had banned our abolished slavery in their home nations (though not quite in all their colonies yet). It was becoming seen as more and more disgusting and shameful throughout the developed world...and America was changing, too. The South just didn't want to change along with the rest of the world.

The slave trade was a triangle pretty much. Ship the slaves from Africa to the Caribbean, trade them for rum, then bring others up North to sell to the South. Repeat process.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You mean yankee slaveholders. Don't forget slavery was rampant up north also. The Confederate leaders are in heaven. Who knows where the yanks wound up. We know sherman is in the innermost circle of hell.

:lol:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You really should learn to be careful about what "they say". I'm in my fifties now.

I wish I had have been raised racist. It would have saved me a lot of pain. Sadly, my parents were really good Christians. They aren't racist one bit.

I've always found raised racism fascinating. Reminds me of Stormfront. I didn't know anyone was raised racist until a few years back. Are you sure you wouldn't consider going back?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The slave trade was a triangle pretty much. Ship the slaves from Africa to the Caribbean, trade them for rum, then bring others up North to sell to the South. Repeat process.

Did you not read what I wrote? By the time the Civil War started, ALL the developed nations of the world - including all the great nations of Europe - had banned our abolished slavery in their home nations (though not quite in all their colonies yet). It was becoming seen as more and more disgusting and shameful throughout the developed world...and America was changing, too. The South just didn't want to change along with the rest of the world.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I wish I had have been raised racist. It would have saved me a lot of pain. Sadly, my parents were really good Christians. They aren't racist one bit.

I've always found raised racism fascinating. Reminds me of Stormfront. I didn't know anyone was raised racist until a few years back. Are you sure you wouldn't consider going back?

No offense, but you sound like you're trolling me. No thanks, I'll refrain from responding to you.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Fort Sumter was - like all military bases then and now - Federal territory.

Face it, ma'am - you're so deeply steeped in what you were taught likely since birth that it's difficult for you to accept what really happened. I can say this because I really do know how you feel - because it's the same way I felt whenever people told me what the Civil War and the Confederacy were really about, what my family and my schools in the South NEVER taught me.

You're only repeating what you were taught...and you're having a really hard time accepting that there was a great deal that you were not taught - part of which was that yes, the secession and the war that followed were at their base about slavery.

So you have a choice - you can either accept that there was so much that you weren't taught, that you honestly didn't realize that the secession and the Civil War was about slavery, and that the South's deeply-entrenched (and still extant) tradition of racism is a shameful thing indeed...or you can choose to cling to what you were told, even in the face of the words of the politicians of the time, words that disprove the beliefs you seem to cherish so deeply.

I have actually found out some things that I was never taught. For instance I was reading an article in one of my UDC magazines before I gave them away to a friend of mine who either he or his wife is a descendant of General Lee. Anyway they were talking about how Arlington Cemetery came to be, and that when the government stole the land from the Lee family, Grant, surprisingly, was the one who insisted that the land and home be returned, even if he had to quit his high ranking job. Ultimately the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Lee family, but by then the damage was already done. The Lee family was forced to sell the land back to the government and now it is Arlington National Cemetery. There is something I was never taught about Grant. My granddaddy hated the guy, never acknowledged one good thing he did, ever. Sure he was a drunk piece of work for most of the war, but he did manage to do something right. Well 2 things right. He rode a beautiful American Saddlebred horse named Cincinnati. Saddlebreds are the most beautiful horses on earth.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Did you not read what I wrote? By the time the Civil War started, ALL the developed nations of the world - including all the great nations of Europe - had banned our abolished slavery in their home nations (though not quite in all their colonies yet). It was becoming seen as more and more disgusting and shameful throughout the developed world...and America was changing, too. The South just didn't want to change along with the rest of the world.

I read that. I merely pointed out that the slave trade was not confined to the South. I am well aware that the slave trade had pretty much ended by then.
 
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