View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #561
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Well, it is entirely your choice to show that there was not a movement toward eliminating slavery written into the USC, or that the debate was not well in hand in the North after 1809...That would be proving me wrong.....instead of taking the easy way out by ironically engaging in accusations of politically based revisionism!
    That is precisely my point, that is what allows you to ignorantly ask how the symbol causes issues between the races of the US.



    Alexander Stephens:

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    So... one guy said something dumb.....

    How many people have said dumb things in the past decade that in 100 years will be viewed as abhorrent.

  2. #562
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh, I see, we are going to divert to the argument for perfection.
    Hardly. I'm simply proposing you use the same standard and same amount of insight that is used on the Confederate Flag, now on the American Flag. Yet when I forced that to happen, the argument became "absurd". Why then couldn't someone have a valid view that the argument against the Confederate Flag was equally "absurd"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    That is cute. I view it this way, we are nation with the stated goal of equality under the law and have been working towards this goal. The Confederacy was not founded on that goal, in fact is was based on the opposite belief that Black are inferior to Whites. We should not endorse a system with that ideology.
    Like I said, to you slavery trumps all and you're not willing to use that same insight and that same amount of criticism against the American Flag, which as I stated earlier, is viewed with just as much animosity and oppression as many view the Confederate Flag.

    Apparently the way it's viewed is the calls for one flags removal is valid, the same view of the OTHER flag's removal is "absurd".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #563
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    My argument is not that since the US (or other nations) engage in war, we should end state sponsorship of our flag. The Confederate flag should have its state endorsement ended since it represents a slave based system. The current US flag (and the current US govt) is not representative of a system based on slavery.

    If you want to call states of war "slavery", it is entirely your prerogative to do so, but I think it is absurd.
    And the U.S. Flag represents raping, pillaging, looting, and burning cities of the south during the Civil War, WITH Approval from the Chief Executive, the Tyrant Abraham Lincoln.

  4. #564
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So... one guy said something dumb.....

    How many people have said dumb things in the past decade that in 100 years will be viewed as abhorrent.
    Um, that one "guy", the Confederate VP, was expressing the credo of the Confederacy, the ideology of the govt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #565
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Hardly. I'm simply proposing you use the same standard and same amount of insight that is used on the Confederate Flag, now on the American Flag. Yet when I forced that to happen, the argument became "absurd". Why then couldn't someone have a valid view that the argument against the Confederate Flag was equally "absurd"?
    The absurdity was the equating a govt based on slavery with a govt that goes to war. Those 2 things are very different.

    Like I said, to you slavery trumps all and you're not willing to use that same insight and that same amount of criticism against the American Flag, which as I stated earlier, is viewed with just as much animosity and oppression as many view the Confederate Flag.
    No, I do not see large segments of the US population wanting the US flag treated the same way as the Confederate BF.....but then I am not living in your arguments worl, so our mileage will vary.

    Apparently the way it's viewed is the calls for one flags removal is valid, the same view of the OTHER flag's removal is "absurd".
    Now you are conflating the 2 argument while still confused about what is the absurd comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #566
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And the U.S. Flag represents raping, pillaging, looting, and burning cities of the south during the Civil War, WITH Approval from the Chief Executive, the Tyrant Abraham Lincoln.
    So the South was not engaged in the same sorts of actions that happened in (dare I say) all 19th century wars?

    You lost track, like ocham, the debate was not about if a country goes to war should we end sponsorship of its symbol. Perhaps a review is in order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #567
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The absurdity was the equating a govt based on slavery with a govt that goes to war. Those 2 things are very different.
    Both were war - they are not different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No, I do not see large segments of the US population wanting the US flag treated the same way as the Confederate BF.....but then I am not living in your arguments worl, so our mileage will vary.
    I didn't ask you your opinion on the US populations temperature on the subject - I'm asking why you cannot attribute the same critical views of both flags and why you deem one valid and the other absurd given a level playing field. So far, you haven't been able to answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Now you are conflating the 2 argument while still confused about what is the absurd comparison.
    I'm not conflating anything but you are not apparently comfortable with using the same critical eye on both, which is interesting.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #568
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Both were war - they are not different.
    Uh, no, it it commonly understood that slavery and war are in fact very different actions, it is absurd to equate them.

    I didn't ask you your opinion on the US populations temperature on the subject
    But that is the context of the whole thread, what is the view of the Confederate BF being an endorsed state symbol
    - I'm asking why you cannot attribute the same critical views of both flags and why you deem one valid and the other absurd given a level playing field. So far, you haven't been able to answer the question.
    I have in fact answered that, you have lost track....again.

    I'm not conflating anything
    Yes, in fact, you did.
    but you are not apparently comfortable with using the same critical eye on both, which is interesting.
    The same critical eye...on slavery.....and on war? Oh but I have, I understand they are very different things and not to be absurdly equated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #569
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Um, that one "guy", the Confederate VP, was expressing the credo of the Confederacy, the ideology of the govt.
    I don't give a rats ass about the Confederate Government as much as I care about the states having a right to leave a government that they no longer consent to govern them.

    Which was supported by nearly all founding father's writings and politicians of the time up to such point as the government has a compelling interest to claim, after hundreds of thousands died in a bloody war, that secession was unconstitutional.

  10. #570
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I don't give a rats ass about the Confederate Government.......
    Well, then you have completely lost track of everything.....because this entire debate is about the state endorsement of a symbol representing those that defended the Confederate government.

    Way to defeat your position:

    How. What exactly is the removal of a symbol flag.... one of which I thought that they had removed years ago..... what is that going to do for race relations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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