View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #551
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Wait - up until 2 years ago, the US oppressed Iraqi's and Afghani's and killed their people indiscriminately. The American flag hasn't changed since 1958 as far as I know.



    So I reiterate.... why shouldn't the Stars and Stripes be banned as well since the US has oppressed others since Korea and Vietnam.
    Oh..I see....in the world your argument creates, being at war with the Iraq State under Hussein, the Taliban and AQ in Afghanistan, The Communists of North Vietnam and North Korea.......are the equivalents of the slave system in the Antebellum South.

    Absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
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    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #552
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If that is what your liberal revisionist history lessons have taught you.
    Well, it is entirely your choice to show that there was not a movement toward eliminating slavery written into the USC, or that the debate was not well in hand in the North after 1809...That would be proving me wrong.....instead of taking the easy way out by ironically engaging in accusations of politically based revisionism!
    When I view the Confederacy... I do it by ignoring the slavery aspect
    That is precisely my point, that is what allows you to ignorantly ask how the symbol causes issues between the races of the US.



    Alexander Stephens:

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #553
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh..I see....in the world your argument creates, being at war with the Iraq State under Hussein, the Taliban and AQ in Afghanistan, The Communists of North Vietnam and North Korea.......are the equivalents of the slave system in the Antebellum South.

    Absurd.
    What's absurd about it? If oppression against the slaves and former slaves is active in a flag that represents a confederate state, why isn't the same level of oppression assigned to the American flag for the oppression that has occurred in foreign wars - wars not of necessity but of convenience where people were killed, murdered, raped, etc.

    See when put on equal footing - all of a sudden the argument is as you say, "absurd". Well done - you got to the crux of the issue very quickly.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #554
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What's absurd about it? If oppression against the slaves and former slaves is active in a flag that represents a confederate state, why isn't the same level of oppression assigned to the American flag for the oppression that has occurred in foreign wars - wars not of necessity but of convenience where people were killed, murdered, raped, etc.

    See when put on equal footing - all of a sudden the argument is as you say, "absurd". Well done - you got to the crux of the issue very quickly.
    I have no idea why I am required to explain to you how a state of war(s) is different from a slave based economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #555
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I have no idea why I am required to explain to you how a state of war(s) is different from a slave based economy.
    It was a state of War between the Union and Confederacy - just like it was a state of War between the US and Korea. The American flag is just as oppressive internationally as those who claim the Confederate flag is so ban them both. But you say that is absurd... why is it absurd in one case and not in the other? Make the argument.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #556
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It was a state of War between the Union and Confederacy - just like it was a state of War between the US and Korea. The American flag is just as oppressive internationally as those who claim the Confederate flag is so ban them both. But you say that is absurd... why is it absurd in one case and not in the other? Make the argument.
    My argument is not that since the US (or other nations) engage in war, we should end state sponsorship of our flag. The Confederate flag should have its state endorsement ended since it represents a slave based system. The current US flag (and the current US govt) is not representative of a system based on slavery.

    If you want to call states of war "slavery", it is entirely your prerogative to do so, but I think it is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #557
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    My argument is not that since the US (or other nations) engage in war, we should end state sponsorship of our flag. The Confederate flag should have its state endorsement ended since it represents a slave based system. The current US flag (and the current US govt) is not representative of a system based on slavery.
    So the basis of your argument is that slavery trumps all other things... and that decades of murder, rape and death done in the name of the American flag is just fine and dandy because, hey... at least it wasn't representing slavery!

    Ok then....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    She doesn't understand the chronology of dates... how do you expect her to deal with more nuanced concepts?
    What exactly is NUANCED about slavery of a race of people?
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What exactly is NUANCED about slavery of a race of people?
    And what is it about 200 year old slavery that ramps your blood so bad?

    You know that there is slavery now? that many illegal immigrants in your country are living in slavery to pay off getting there? How come no threads about that?

    You know that the worst slavery known to man occurred just a few years ago? And I bet you never thought to go ape **** over the swastika...


    Why is that? You only have compassion for blacks you never met, and not Jews you might have met?

    Or is it because your master has wrung the bell and you can't help but salivate?
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

  10. #560
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So the basis of your argument is that slavery trumps all other things... and that decades of murder, rape and death done in the name of the American flag is just fine and dandy because, hey... at least it wasn't representing slavery!

    Ok then....
    Oh, I see, we are going to divert to the argument for perfection. That is cute. I view it this way, we are nation with the stated goal of equality under the law and have been working towards this goal. The Confederacy was not founded on that goal, in fact is was based on the opposite belief that Blacks were inferior to Whites. We should not endorse a system with that ideology.

    I never made the claim the US, its policies or action have been perfect (they haven't) or are the best (they are not), but then that wasn't the premise...was it?

    PS...you are really off-base if you think I am going to defend the policies of Johnson/Nixon or of GWB. But the defending of South Korea from becoming enslaved under NK regimes, I am fine with Truman going forward and pushing NK back to the 39th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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