View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #531
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are asking how will the removal of a symbol deeply associated with a slave system of Blacks from display by a state govt reduces animosity of Blacks towards state govt? That should be self evident. Further, the elimination of state sponsored displays of a symbol of institutional racism decreases the legitimacy of its use by extremists. That should be self evident too.
    So you can't explain how. Just "well.... its like, obvious and like... stufff... doh!"

    If anyone thinks that the flag being on a flag pole on "state grounds" somehow made its use my racist morons "legitimate"..... I say that a person who thinks that way is a ****ing idiot.

    So, I ask again... how is this going to improve race relations?

  2. #532
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post




    OH NOES!!!! ITS A SYMBOL OF OPPRESSION!!!!!!
    Racists using the US flag does not make it a symbol of state sponsored racism.

    On the other hand, the Confederate flag was a symbol of a racist slave system, since the Confederacy was fundamentally a slave based system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #533
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Harman View Post
    "The American Flag is a symbol of racism and oppression"

    Not a compelling argument.

    1. the American flag stands for all sorts of things: freedom, progressivism, etc... The Confederate flag stands solely for slavery and is akin to the Swastika in its meaning.
    What something stands for is in the eye of the person viewing it. I don't see the confederate flag standing solely for slavery. In fact I see it standing for a representation of the ideal that we have a right to be governed by consent. Those in the south no longer consented to the tariffs that were unfairly punishing the southern economy for its reliance on imported goods. I would also say, based upon the actions taken by Abraham Lincoln in trying to keep the union together, that they made the right decision to leave shortly after his election. I mean, suspension of habeaus corpus... imprisoning people for speaking out against the war with no charges and no trial... even when the supreme court issued a ruling that he couldn't do this... he had the chief justice arrested. He shut down newspapers that criticized him.... He allowed his Generals to burn down southern towns and slaughter civilians.

    So I would say the south got it right to run when that guy got elected into offfice.

  4. #534
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So you can't explain how. Just "well.... its like, obvious and like... stufff... doh!"
    Since I said "it is self evident" that those who have seen it as a source of conflict for long time have been working to eliminate it....again, the question of how it reduces the animosity....should be a no brainer.

    If anyone thinks that the flag being on a flag pole on "state grounds" somehow made its use my racist morons "legitimate"..... I say that a person who thinks that way is a ****ing idiot.
    I suppose that since your argument is based on the ignorance of the history of the the resurgence of the use of this flag, it would be easy to to portray this as "idiocy"....not to mention ironic to boot.

    So, I ask again... how is this going to improve race relations?
    I'm afraid that trying to explain to why it was a source of fear for a large portion of the population is pointless, let alone why it would cause animosity among this same population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #535
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Racists using the US flag does not make it a symbol of state sponsored racism.

    On the other hand, the Confederate flag was a symbol of a racist slave system, since the Confederacy was fundamentally a slave based system.
    The United States of America was fundamentally a slave based system.

  6. #536
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Since I said "it is self evident" that those who have seen it as a source of conflict for long time have been working to eliminate it....again, the question of how it reduces the animosity....should be a no brainer.


    I suppose that since your argument is based on the ignorance of the history of the the resurgence of the use of this flag, it would be easy to to portray this as "idiocy"....not to mention ironic to boot.

    I'm afraid that trying to explain to why it was a source of fear for a large portion of the population is pointless, let alone why it would cause animosity among this same population.
    Then if it is a "no brainer" you should be able to articulate this.... right?


    So I ask again....

    How is this going to improve race relations?

    Are people suddenly going to be less racist?

    Are people who feel that the entire world around them is racist going to suddenly stop finding racism in every action or word?


    If the answer to both of those questions is no....then what is this doing for race relations... exactly?

  7. #537
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    What something stands for is in the eye of the person viewing it.
    This is an argument that the individual determines the history of a symbol, and that this view should be the dominate view. There is no escaping that the Confederacy was fundamentally a slave system, it was created to preserve slavery. The flag represents this fact, your argument is based on avoidance of the overriding point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #538
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    This is an argument that the individual determines the history of a symbol, and that this view should be the dominate view. There is no escaping that the Confederacy was fundamentally a slave system, it was created to preserve slavery. The flag represents this fact, your argument is based on avoidance of the overriding point.
    There is no escaping that the United States was fundamentally a slave system.

    The Confederacy was created because the central government of the U.S. no longer had the consent of those in the South to govern them.

  9. #539
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Then if it is a "no brainer" you should be able to articulate this.... right?
    I did, i have, over and over.


    So I ask again....

    How is this going to improve race relations?
    Already answered, ignoring the point does not negate it. Ignoring points, facts is not a legit dialectic technique.

    Are people suddenly going to be less racist?
    Probably not, but it removes another bit of legitimization of the symbol.

    Are people who feel that the entire world around them is racist going to suddenly stop finding racism in every action or word?
    Absolutist rhetoric is pointless.


    If the answer to both of those questions is no....then what is this doing for race relations... exactly?
    Already answered, ignoring the responses is not debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #540
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I did, i have, over and over.
    Yes... by saying, "Its obvious"


    Already answered, ignoring the point does not negate it. Ignoring points, facts is not a legit dialectic technique.
    "Its Obvious" isn't articulating anything.

    Probably not, but it removes another bit of legitimization of the symbol.
    Why do you think people found it "legitimate" because it was on a state flagpole?

    Absolutist rhetoric is pointless.


    Already answered, ignoring the responses is not debate.
    Hilarious.... You are making absolutist rhetoric by saying, "Its obvious" as your reasoning.

    You have failed to explain how this will improve race relations.

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