View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #461
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    It is a bull**** excuse for people to justify displaying a symbol knowing exactly what it is and what they are doing and the message they are trying to send with it. If a group of people started displaying swastikas and yelling heil hitler all the time and claimed it was not because of the nazi germany era but because they really like 90 degree angles and words that start with H would you buy that crap too? The confederate flag has been used quite a few times in history. It was flown as a symbol of a divided country by those desperately trying to cling to slavery. It largely disappeared for quite a while, then made a large comeback as a symbol of the dixiecrats who were largely running on a segregation platform. It has been used consistently by the KKK and other racist groups. The reason it was put up (and has not been taken down since) is largely believed to have been a symbol of SC's opposition to desegregation in schools.

    There are a number of symbols that could be used in the south as a symbol of pride, symbols that are not so closely tied to racism time and time again. This flag in politics and movements has always represented one thing, and that is racism. Individuals can do what they'd like. Putting a symbol that has only been used in politics for the repression of people on government grounds as a symbol of pride is at the very least extremely poor judgement.

    How would you feel if Obama were to demand that all Federal buildings fly

    Attachment 67186209
    or

    Attachment 67186211


    Not as a racial group but a symbol of pride for black americans? My guess is many in white america would be uncomfortable and would protest those being flown by our government as a symbol of our country regardless of the "reason" they are being flown, but because of what they represent to most people.
    Funny.
    You compare the display of a flag with no words on it to someone yelling "Heil Hitler" or images that specifically state "Black Power".

    Because myopic narrow minded people believe the confederate flag equates into racism doesn't mean it does.

    Please point out the words of racism on the flag.... Its not even comparable to your ignorant suggestions because the others are blatantly racist.

    Its just like I wouldn't call someone a nazi because they display the gammadion cross unless it came with the nazi colors.

  2. #462
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Funny.
    You compare the display of a flag with no words on it to someone yelling "Heil Hitler" or images that specifically state "Black Power".

    Because myopic narrow minded people believe the confederate flag equates into racism doesn't mean it does.

    Please point out the words of racism on the flag.... Its not even comparable to your ignorant suggestions because the others are blatantly racist.

    Its just like I wouldn't call someone a nazi because they display the gammadion cross unless it came with the nazi colors.
    There are no racist words on the flags I posted. Even if you drop the words, just use the symbols. Would you support them being flown on government property? The symbol of the black panthers and the confederate flag are comparable. Both represent racism to many. Both represent history and pride for others. These are very directly comparable. If they are not, please let me know how they differ.
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  3. #463
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    It is a bull**** excuse for people to justify displaying a symbol knowing exactly what it is and what they are doing and the message they are trying to send with it. If a group of people started displaying swastikas and yelling heil hitler all the time and claimed it was not because of the nazi germany era but because they really like 90 degree angles and words that start with H would you buy that crap too? The confederate flag has been used quite a few times in history. It was flown as a symbol of a divided country by those desperately trying to cling to slavery. It largely disappeared for quite a while, then made a large comeback as a symbol of the dixiecrats who were largely running on a segregation platform. It has been used consistently by the KKK and other racist groups. The reason it was put up (and has not been taken down since) is largely believed to have been a symbol of SC's opposition to desegregation in schools.

    There are a number of symbols that could be used in the south as a symbol of pride, symbols that are not so closely tied to racism time and time again. This flag in politics and movements has always represented one thing, and that is racism. Individuals can do what they'd like. Putting a symbol that has only been used in politics for the repression of people on government grounds as a symbol of pride is at the very least extremely poor judgement.

    How would you feel if Obama were to demand that all Federal buildings fly

    Attachment 67186209
    or

    Attachment 67186211


    Not as a racial group but a symbol of pride for black americans? My guess is many in white america would be uncomfortable and would protest those being flown by our government as a symbol of our country regardless of the "reason" they are being flown, but because of what they represent to most people.
    If they are yelling "Heil Hitler" it would be hard for them to claim that they aren't supportive of nazi policies and/or Hitler himself honestly.

    Not that I have a problem with removing the confederate flag from government buildings mainly because I think only the US flag and specific state flags should fly over government buildings to avoid showing any sort of bias to any particular group of people. I do have an issue with so many people overreacting (like Amazon refusing to sell the flags) and getting upset about this. It is their freedom to do so, of course, but it is still an overreactive thing to do. And the media is not helping this situation. This is very similar to that whole noose thing about 7/8 years ago. Most young people never would have thought of a noose as racist, until they are being told by older generations that they should. That kind of thing doesn't help.
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  4. #464
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    What's your point?
    Slavery was brought to this country by the immigrants who moved here. It was a practice accepted throughout the known world regardless of skin color. Even those who sold the slaves to the slave merchants earmarked for our shores were as dark skinned as the people they sold.

    The left likes to talk a lot about "subjective" morality. That no one has the right to set objective morality for another. Well these folks didn't see anything wrong with slavery. It was a way of life they had been taught in another country. King George encouraged it because the more the colonies produced, the more money he collected. But the movement to stop the practice in this country started in the 1700's by church leaders, their congregations and the politicians they elected.

    After the Civil War something wonderful changed and that is Blacks were being elected to office to represent their constituents.During Reconstruction, some 2,000 African Americans held public office, from the local level all the way up to the U.S. Senate, though they never achieved representation in government proportionate to their numbers.
    Black Leaders During Reconstruction - American Civil War - HISTORY.com

    Race relations continued to heal till Democrat Woodrow Wilson became president. Things went from Blacks being elected in the South to public office to that big elitist segregationist Wilson segregating the Federal offices in government making black folks work separately from whites. The Dixiecrats (Southern Democrat politicians) had a real friend in Woodrow Wilson. Much of the progress made in race relations because of that bozo were lost. Ironically the years of Wilson's presidency are called the Progressive Era.

    Fast forward to the Civil Rights movement. The Dixiecrat elites had a stronghold on the Southern states and did everything they could to thwart the passage of the Civil Rights bill. Their unwillingness to approve Civil rights legislation started long before President Johnson. It began when Eisenhower and Republicans brought the matter before Congress. They were successful in thwarting it until Republicans in Congress working with Democrats in favor of the civil rights bill that eventually garnered enough votes for passage. It was a Republican who penned the final bill that was passed into law and signed by President Johnson. And President Johnson certainly gave the Republicans the credit for its passage.
    What you might not know about the 1964 Civil Rights Act - CNNPolitics.com

    But today the rhetoric spewing out of the left is a real fairytale. They have proven they are willing to take race baiting to an all time new level to camouflage the truth and the wall of shame that has taken them over a century to build.

    Because you keep accusing the left of dishonesty, I just wanted to see how honest you were by posting the truth about slavery just to see if you agreed or disagreed. But you seem to have ignored the link I posted which suggests that you're not very honest yourself.
    Last edited by Moot; 06-25-15 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #465
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Someone posted yesterday (in one of the million threads about this ) a list of the states who went to war with the North, and their reasons for doing so, and the reasons were for slavery (and this came from the states themselves). So you can tell them until you are blue in the face that the States went to war over slavery, and people are going to plug their ears and believe what they choose. Facts are irrelevant.
    Her response has just proven you right. I know she must've read some of the link I posted because she proceeded to give me a brief synopsis of the Civil War while completely avoiding the facts mentioned in the link I posted.

  6. #466
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Her response has just proven you right. I know she must've read some of the link I posted because she proceeded to give me a brief synopsis of the Civil War while completely avoiding the facts mentioned in the link I posted.
    And that is even scarier. That they read about it and still bury their heads in the sand.
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  7. #467
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If you think that hundreds of thousands of southerners joined the cause of the south to fight for the purpose of slavery........ when only a small fraction owned slaves........ you are sorely mistaken.
    Slavery was the cause of the war and the cause of secession. Also, one can take up arms for a cause that he supports, yet is not directly involved in. Many within the SS likely did not carry out ethnic cleansing on their own behalf, yet fought on the behalf of a movement that explicitly supported such.

  8. #468
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Slavery was the cause of the war and the cause of secession. One can very well fight for a cause that he himself is not involved in
    That's incorrect.

    The root causes of the Civil War can be broken down into States Rights, Slavery, Political and Economic considerations. Slavery, while listed as a separate cause, had significant influence on the other three. An understanding of the above influences of the time will reveal, however, that slavery, while factoring into the various causes in different degrees, should not be considered the sole cause of the Civil War.
    Overview
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    But the USA *was recognized as a nation.

    The CSA *never* was.

    By anyone.
    Not for over a year... Here, the Maori are trying to get an official Maori Flag to represent what was never a recognized nation but all the while, this "unofficial flag" is flying on government buildings. So what?

    Besides that is not relevant to the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #470
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Obnoxious.
    There was literally NOTHING obnoxious in that post.

    Actually
    Dismissive.

    Morocco was the first country to formally recognize the US as an independent country in 1777...
    I don't care what Morocco has to say about our history and I will stick with the State Department as a source:

    Frequently Asked Questions
    What country was the first to recognize the United States?

    France recognized the United States as an independent state on February 6, 1778.


    https://history.state.gov/about/faq/...o-recognize-US

    Not sure, but I don't think the US had an official flag at that time.
    Actually, we did.

    On June 14, 1777, the Second Continental Congress passed the Flag Resolution which stated: "Resolved, That the flag of the thirteen United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new constellation."

    A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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