View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #231
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    I do.

    It's what I do for a living.

    For decades.

    Just ad homing me doesn't make much of a case.

    BTW: The reason for my user name is because I work with original documents, letters from the Revolution Era to Civil War - some that are now in museums and Institutions. Some have been written about in books.

    Thousands of original Civil war soldiers letters have passed through my hands, as well as original items signed by near every CW General and near every Founder and President...

    Letters and docs actually signed by Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln . Yes. I've touched the exact same paper they touched.

    It's pretty humbling.
    That... is incredibly cool. Appreciate any perspective you can add. I'm really tired of being labelled a redneck because I moved to Georgia 13 years ago after 22 years in the Chicago burbs and like the study of ballistics. Never owned a slave.

  2. #232
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    To keep the union whole Lincoln offered to let the south keep their slaves. He would not allow the new territories who would later become states the right to slavery however. While the south had an issue with that, there were other issues. Pro slavery Democrats were upset with Republican abolitionists in the north. To gain control of the federal legislature, the south wanted slaves counted in the census for the purpose of counting legislators. The abolitionists only allowed slaves to be counted as 3/5th of a person for the census thus taking votes away in the house of representatives for the south and decreasing their impact in Federal government.

    The south succeeded. Two years after succession Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation hoping to create a slave rebellion in the south and further taxing confederate troops. He allowed some northern states to keep their slaves and the institution of slavery lasted until after the war was over and congress ratified the thirteenth amendment.

    To say that the civil war was about slavery isn't quite true. It was a large issue but Lincoln was willing to let the south keep their slaves and there were many more issues that contributed to the south's unhappiness with the union. In the end it's more accurate to say that the war was fought over states rights and federal power.

    Some of this I knew. Some I garnered from my participation in these discussions and independent reading I did as a result. Thank you.
    Thank you, but I am aware of the history leading up to the Civil War. The questions are:

    Why was the South so concerned about the territories being allowed to have slavery? Why was the south trying to inflate their numbers in the House? Because the South wanted to preserve the institution of slavery at all costs. That is the only "states right" they were concerned with and the fact is the whole thing was ultimately about slavery. The South left the Union in an attempt to preserve the evil institution of slavery. I am from the south, I love the south, but the civil war is a shame upon it.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  3. #233
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Do you give any creedence to the conclusion that the Tariff of 1828, aka Tariff of Abominations, lit the fuse to what would happen 33 years later ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Thank you, but I am aware of the history leading up to the Civil War. The questions are:

    Why was the South so concerned about the territories being allowed to have slavery? Why was the south trying to inflate their numbers in the House? Because the South wanted to preserve the institution of slavery at all costs. That is the only "states right" they were concerned with and the fact is the whole thing was ultimately about slavery. The South left the Union in an attempt to preserve the evil institution of slavery. I am from the south, I love the south, but the civil war is a shame upon it.
    Chemists Have Solutions .

  4. #234
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Do you give any creedence to the conclusion that the Tariff of 1828, aka Tariff of Abominations, lit the fuse to what would happen 33 years later ?
    Only in so far as it gave British Abolitionists an economic tool to use against slavery in the Southern United States (refusing to buy southern cotton). Anyway you slice it, the whole thing revolved around the issue of slavery.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #235
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Thank you, but I am aware of the history leading up to the Civil War. The questions are:

    Why was the South so concerned about the territories being allowed to have slavery? Why was the south trying to inflate their numbers in the House? Because the South wanted to preserve the institution of slavery at all costs. That is the only "states right" they were concerned with and the fact is the whole thing was ultimately about slavery. The South left the Union in an attempt to preserve the evil institution of slavery. I am from the south, I love the south, but the civil war is a shame upon it.
    After doing some additional research I've determined that there are many disagreements about the true start of the Civil War and that the southern states didn't even agree on their issues. I'm not going to go any further than I've gone because if historians don't agree, I'm not finding agreement either. Here's some reading if you are interested. The Reasons for Secession
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  6. #236
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    People need to stop pretending that slavery wasn't a BIG reason why the south seceded from the Union, as well as, stop hiding being "state's rights" or that "old southern way of life" mantra. Yes, economics played a role back then but the fact remains that many White southerns whether rich and influential or dirt poor and racist didn't want Negros to be seen as anything more than property. And, hence, the leading reason for the Civil War. Pretend if you want that the South didn't want "them damn Yankees telling them how to run their lives" if you wish, but the fact remains there were racist, segregationist, bigoted and hateful Whites back then who only wanted to see Blacks either behind them or in front of a whip.

    Harsh, but true.

    Now, about the Confederate Flag...abolished, no. In a museum, yes, or flow only over Confederate War Memorial sites. It should never be flown above state capital buildings or other such facilities. That's why each (southern) state has its own state flag. If you wish to wave it to show your southern pride, do so WITH the understanding that some people - both Black and White - may look at you sideways and project a deserved pre-conceived notion towards you.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    People need to stop pretending that slavery wasn't a BIG reason why the south seceded from the Union, as well as, stop hiding being "state's rights" or that "old southern way of life" mantra. Yes, economics played a role back then but the fact remains that many White southerns whether rich and influential or dirt poor and racist didn't want Negros to be seen as anything more than property. And, hence, the leading reason for the Civil War. .
    The sentence: "many whites" whether rich or dirt poor and whether resding in the north or the south didn't want Negros to be seen as anything more than property" would be far more accurate.

    That aside, the basis for the civil war seems to be:

    CSA: We are leaving to preserve slavery
    USA: Leaving is an act of war. BTW, we have no intention of banning slavery. In fact, slave ownership by loyal citizens is welcome.
    CSA: We dont trust you, we are leaving anyways.
    USA: The war is on.

    I fail to see how the this fact pattern should glorify the union that was willing to expend hundreds of thousands of lives making a political point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    but the fact remains there were racist, segregationist, bigoted and hateful Whites back then who only wanted to see Blacks either behind them or in front of a whip.

    Harsh, but true.
    Very true and very harsh. Of course, not all people with that view lived in the south.

  8. #238
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    too many babies crying about a flag.

    it's a cool flag... keep it.
    Just like the Swastika, eh? Cool?
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  9. #239
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The sentence: "many whites" whether rich or dirt poor and whether resding in the north or the south didn't want Negros to be seen as anything more than property" would be far more accurate.

    That aside, the basis for the civil war seems to be:

    CSA: We are leaving to preserve slavery
    USA: Leaving is an act of war. BTW, we have no intention of banning slavery. In fact, slave ownership by loyal citizens is welcome.
    CSA: We dont trust you, we are leaving anyways.
    USA: The war is on.

    I fail to see how the this fact pattern should glorify the union that was willing to expend hundreds of thousands of lives making a political point.


    Very true and very harsh. Of course, not all people with that view lived in the south.
    No, but they were the only ones willing to destroy the country to preserve that right. And your simplistic summation of the causes of the Civil War is ludicrous.
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  10. #240
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The Confederate flag is a racist symbol and no state should require it to be displayed.

    It will be gone from every state display in the near future.

    Wait and see.

    Of course that won't stop you or anyone else from having it tattooed on your forehead.

    Any state that chooses to can display the Stars and Bars just as long as it damned well pleases. What authority do you imagine you have, or anyone else not resident in a state has, to tell that state it cannot fly that flag? I know it's a constant source of vexation for statists, but we have a federal government in this country--not a national one.

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