View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #211
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Settle down cowboy...
    Only because they didn't have national control, the republicans were for states rights, and Lincoln himself.


    Some did... but the foundations of the Republican party never changed, nor the democratic party.
    what

    in

    the

    hell???

  2. #212
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Settle down cowboy...
    Only because they didn't have national control, the republicans were for states rights, and Lincoln himself.
    Damn, that is just so wrong.


    Some did... but the foundations of the Republican party never changed, nor the democratic party.
    I know your argument relies entirely on the ignoring of the ideological divide between liberal Northern Democrats and conservative Southern Dems that existed for decades, an ignoring of the massive shift in the Southern White vote from "45 to '80...and the opposite shift in the Black vote in the same period. Your arguments understanding of the parties is seriously in error. You keep arguing in terms of foundations, ignoring the demographics.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 06-23-15 at 01:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #213
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Not wanted the will to be, the will of the people in those states was to keep slavery in those states.
    UM, again, that is what I SAID.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  4. #214
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Abolished, no. Taken off of state property, yes. I believe that a person has the right to fly whatever flag they want to on their own personal property, but that states should only fly the American flag and their own state's flag.

  5. #215
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    Abolished, no. Taken off of state property, yes. I believe that a person has the right to fly whatever flag they want to on their own personal property, but that states should only fly the American flag and their own state's flag.
    I agree.

    But I imagine the next target of the banners will be that Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Florida and North Carolina have elements of various CSA flags or CSA battle emblems directly incorperated into their state flags. Then there is the Maryland State song advocating sessession and the suspiscious figure in grey on the Kentucky flag- no doubt representing an apolitical Kentucky colonel.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 06-23-15 at 02:09 PM.

  6. #216
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

    I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.
    That's a great example of a false equivalency. The Confederacy held as immutable divine law that blacks were not equal to whites, somehow less than human...and the Nazis held as immutable law that Jews (and other minorities and disabled people) were not equal to Aryans, somehow less than human. The only real difference is that while the Confederates saw blacks as property and enslaved them from cradle to grave (and could rape or kill them with legal impunity), the Nazis not only enslaved the 'lesser races' but also killed them en masse.

    So...no, this is not a case of a violation of Godwin's Law - it's simply pointing out that what the Confederacy was doing was in fact a heck of a lot closer to life under the Nazis than in the abolitionist Union states.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  7. #217
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I agree.

    But I imagine the next target of the banners will be that Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Florida and North Carolina have elements of various CSA flags or CSA battle emblems directly incorperated into their state flags. Then there is the Maryland State song advocating sessession and the suspiscious figure in grey on the Kentucky flag- no doubt representing an apolitical Kentucky colonel.
    The Confederate flag should not be banned - First Amendment, and all that - but flying that flag should be seen in the same light as flying the flag of Nazi Germany...for the very reasons I point out in reply #216 in this thread.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #218
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    That's a great example of a false equivalency. The Confederacy held as immutable divine law that blacks were not equal to whites, somehow less than human...and the Nazis held as immutable law that Jews (and other minorities and disabled people) were not equal to Aryans, somehow less than human. The only real difference is that while the Confederates saw blacks as property and enslaved them from cradle to grave (and could rape or kill them with legal impunity), the Nazis not only enslaved the 'lesser races' but also killed them en masse.

    So...no, this is not a case of a violation of Godwin's Law - it's simply pointing out that what the Confederacy was doing was in fact a heck of a lot closer to life under the Nazis than in the abolitionist Union states.
    So did the union.

    "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln

  9. #219
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Settle down cowboy...
    Only because they didn't have national control, the republicans were for states rights, and Lincoln himself.


    Some did... but the foundations of the Republican party never changed, nor the democratic party.
    Dude. The Republicans were once the party of liberals, particularly in the generations immediately following the Civil War.

    And politics in the South has ALWAYS been strongly conservative, from the founding of our nation until today (and I would know - I grew up there, with my family line in the same little cemetery in the MS Delta going back to just after the Civil War). It was strongly conservative when it was the Democratic "Solid South" for several generations, and it remains strongly conservative today as the strongest base of the Republican party. The switch happened due to the Southern backlash to the Civil Rights Act (the conservative white Southerners blamed the Dems for getting it passed) and because of Nixon's "Southern Strategy", wherein he appealed to "state's rights" in order to attract what his campaign manager called "negrophobes".

    So...if you really are of the opinion that the foundations of the parties "never changed"...dude, I suggest y'all go learn some American political history....
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #220
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    So did the union.

    "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln
    'Scuse you, but whatever Lincoln said, it was NOT legal to OWN slaves in the Union, it was NOT legal to rape or kill blacks in the Union just because the white owner wanted to. In the Union, if a black was raped by a white, it was RAPE, and not just "use of property" as it was in the South. In the Union, if a black man was killed, it was MURDER, and not just "disposal of property" as it was in the South.

    In these ways the South was NOT like the North, but was IDENTICAL to Nazi Germany.

    I grew up loving the Confederacy, loving the Confederate flag, and the legacy of the South...until I really began to understand what the legacy of the Confederacy really was. You haven't reached that same level of understanding that yet.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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