View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #201
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    They were fiscal liberals/Federalists
    WTF!?!
    Southern Dems were in no manner what so ever Federalists, not before the Civil War, not after. FFS, what a complete derp of a statement!
    ... and they liked the use of government control to fit their culture norms.
    Sure....STATE govt control, STATES RIGHTS.....wow.
    The democrat party hasn't changed in it's foundation
    THE SOUTHERN DEMS SURE DID
    ... Just when they couldn't have that social control anymore they retreated to try to protect their own views/liberties... that's why some started voting republican.
    If this is code for Southern cons switched sides through the 60's and 70's, yes that is what I said.
    Democrats* ...They can't change the meaning of the flag, you can't change the name
    No one is changing a name, it is just that Southern cons went from Dems to the GOP, just as the Black vote went from the GOP to the Dems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #202
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    lol, I am sure I can find quotes that match what I am saying too... I never said slavery/racism wasn't there and wasn't a part of the confederacy, I am saying the conflict was much broader than that. Even to the republicans at the time it had nothing to do with slavery but seceding from the union. Lincoln actually supported a mandate that states have a constitutional right to either banish or maintain slavery.
    Everything for the south revolved around the protection, perpetuation and expansion of slavery.

    Everything.

    The old tired chestnut of the Corwin Amendment doesn't go very far.

    It was a last ditch effort, which most all knew stood no chance of survival.

    Lincoln had nothing to do with its passage. By the time he addressed it, most states had already seceded. It was a futility, and most all saw it as such.

    At that point too - the south had already commenced hostilities. They were bound and determined to go to war and nothing was going to stop them.

    The Southrons made it clear in their many declarations of independence and in a boatload of other statements, actions, laws and their own written constitution, the protection of Slavery was at the base of all.

    It was the lifeblood (literally) of their economy, and they knew it.

  3. #203
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    That's quite a mixed up rendering of the 3/5th compromise.
    You may read about it here. The "Three-Fifths" compromise | African American Registry
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  4. #204
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Everything for the south revolved around the protection, perpetuation and expansion of slavery.

    Everything.

    The old tired chestnut of the Corwin Amendment doesn't go very far.

    It was a last ditch effort, which most all knew stood no chance of survival.

    Lincoln had nothing to do with its passage. By the time he addressed it, most states had already seceded. It was a futility, and most all saw it as such.

    At that point too - the south had already commenced hostilities. They were bound and determined to go to war and nothing was going to stop them.

    The Southrons made it clear in their many declarations of independence and in a boatload of other statements, actions, laws and their own written constitution, the protection of Slavery was at the base of all.

    It was the lifeblood (literally) of their economy, and they knew it.
    “Our country demands all our strength, all our energies. To resist the powerful combination now forming against us will require every man at his place. If victorious, we will have everything to hope for in the future. If defeated, nothing will be left for us to live for.”
    Robert E. Lee

    “All that the South has ever desired was that the Union as established by our forefathers should be preserved and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth.”
    Robert E. Lee

    “The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states.”
    Charles Dickens, 1862

    “As for the South, it is enough to say that perhaps eighty per cent. of her armies were neither slave-holders, nor had the remotest interest in the institution. No other proof, however, is needed than the undeniable fact that at any period of the war from its beginning to near its close the South could have saved slavery by simply laying down its arms and returning to the Union.”
    Major General John B. Gordon, from his book, Causes of the Civil War.

    These are quotes as well showing a much different picture on what people were fighting about.

  5. #205
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it doesn't. Context. The will of the people when this nation was formed was the will of the white male people.
    Uh, that is the point I made, the South wanted the will to be of Whites, for Whites, in states. The context was the Civil War.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    I am a medical provider. Try having the pressure of someones life in your hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #206
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I don't have to read about it.

    I know it quite well. History is my profession.

    What you wrote there was pretty mixed up rendering. That's all I said.

  7. #207
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    WTF!?!
    Settle down cowboy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Southern Dems were in no manner what so ever Federalists, not before the Civil War, not after. FFS, what a complete derp of a statement!Sure....STATE govt control, STATES RIGHTS.....wow.THE SOUTHERN DEMS SURE DIDIf this is code for Southern cons switched sides through the 60's and 70's, yes that is what I said.
    Only because they didn't have national control, the republicans were for states rights, and Lincoln himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No one is changing a name, it is just that Southern cons went from Dems to the GOP, just as the Black vote went from the GOP to the Dems.
    Some did... but the foundations of the Republican party never changed, nor the democratic party.

  8. #208
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    What I am talking about is the shortsightedness of the Antebellum South. Slavery was inefficient, it stifled growth...even with the Gin. But the South insisted on an archaic system because of ideology that that Blacks are inferior, that White slave holding is the natural order of things.
    Indeed the Northern system of wealth, position and class won the day and it was much more "efficient" for the North to have wage slaves of lower class and not have any [primarily financial] responsibility towards them. They still had functional slavery without the need to purchase and maintain the slaves.

  9. #209
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    “Our country demands all
    ...



    ================== ^ ===============

    "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." -Alexander Stephens

    ====================================
    Have you by any chance read the The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States?

    Here: The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

    If you don't have time to read them, just do a Control ^ F with the word "slave."

    Just for ****s and grins.

    Let us know what you come up with.
    Last edited by Paperview; 06-23-15 at 01:17 PM.

  10. #210
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh, that is the point I made, the South wanted the will to be of Whites, for Whites, in states. The context was the Civil War.
    Not wanted the will to be, the will of the people in those states was to keep slavery in those states. Somehow, not having the vote or the position in society anywhere above a slave, women gained the right to vote and did it the right way constitutionally.

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