View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #1371
    Educator HorseLoverGirl's Avatar
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by digitusmedius View Post
    On what constitutional basis did the south believe it had the right to secede? Is there a clause somewhere in the rightwing, white-supremacist version of the Constitution that reads: "and if any of the states don't like the way things are going can leave any time they wish?" I guess there must be because rightwingers still toss out the idea of secession every time the constutional process the governs the entire country doesn't bow to their extremist ideology.
    The South did not have to place their right to secede in the Constitution for it to be a right. They made it more than clear that when they acceded to the union they had the right to secede from the union. Had they not made that right clear, they would likely have formed their own country sooner.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  2. #1372
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Quote that please.
    The bible condones slavery, does it not?

  3. #1373
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    How about all the Confederate slaveholders?

    Where are they burning?
    You mean yankee slaveholders. Don't forget slavery was rampant up north also. The Confederate leaders are in heaven. Who knows where the yanks wound up. We know sherman is in the innermost circle of hell.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  4. #1374
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    The South did not have to place their right to secede in the Constitution for it to be a right. They made it more than clear that when they acceded to the union they had the right to secede from the union. Had they not made that right clear, they would likely have formed their own country sooner.
    Except they chose to do so just after an election happened and their canidates had lost.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  5. #1375
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    The bible condones slavery, does it not?
    Isn't there that verse in Exodus about selling your youngest daughter into slavery?
    Life is short, ride a horse

  6. #1376
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Except they chose to do so just after an election happened and their canidates had lost.
    Like I said, had they not made their right clear, they would likely have formed their own nation SOONER. Sooner being the key word.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  7. #1377
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    You mean yankee slaveholders. Don't forget slavery was rampant up north also. The Confederate leaders are in heaven. Who knows where the yanks wound up. We know sherman is in the innermost circle of hell.
    The northern economy was not dependent on slavary though.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  8. #1378
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Fate, fortune, call it what you will.

    Stonewalls luck ran out at Chancellorsville.
    I wouldn't call it luck running out, I call it bad timing and poor lighting.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  9. #1379
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    The South did not have to place their right to secede in the Constitution for it to be a right. They made it more than clear that when they acceded to the union they had the right to secede from the union. Had they not made that right clear, they would likely have formed their own country sooner.
    I'm tired of posting this, and HorseGirl will not read it, because she scrolls over anything that does not fit into her bubble,

    but...

    for those who might be interested:
    The direct question, when posed, was answered when NY was considering it's ratification of the Constitution. At that time it was proposed:

    "there should be reserved to the state of New York a right to withdraw herself from the union after a certain number of years."

    A vote was taken, and it was negatived.


    Elliot’s Debates: Volume 2 | Teaching American History

    Historian Amar goes on to explain the pivotal moment of agreement:

    "But exactly how were these states united? Did a state that said yes in the 1780's retain the right to unilaterally say no later on, and thereby secede? If not, why not?

    Once again, it was in New York that the answer emerged most emphatically. At the outset of the Poughkeepsie convention, anti-Federalists held a strong majority. The tide turned when word arrived that New Hampshire and Virginia had said yes to the Constitution, at which point anti-Federalists proposed a compromise: they would vote to ratify, but if the new federal government failed to embrace various reforms that they favored, "there should be reserved to the state of New York a right to withdraw herself from the union after a certain number of years."

    At the risk of alienating swing voters and losing on the ultimate ratification vote, Federalists emphatically opposed the compromise.

    In doing so, they made clear to everyone - in New York and in the 12 other states where people were following the New York contest with interest - that the Constitution did not permit unilateral state secession.

    Alexander Hamilton read aloud a letter at the Poughkeepsie convention that he had received from James Madison stating that "the Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever."

    Hamilton and John Jay then added their own words, which the New York press promptly reprinted: "a reservation of a right to withdraw" was "inconsistent with the Constitution, and was no ratification."

    Thus, it was New York where the document became an irresistible reality and where its central meaning - one nation, democratic and indivisible - emerged with crystal clarity."

    Conventional Wisdom--A Commentary by Prof. Akhil Amar Yale Law School

    Yes. "In toto and forever."

  10. #1380
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    The South did not have to place their right to secede in the Constitution for it to be a right. They made it more than clear that when they acceded to the union they had the right to secede from the union. Had they not made that right clear, they would likely have formed their own country sooner.
    Secession - and the war that follows - are only a 'right' if they are successful. That's why our declaration of independence from England was successful - we were able to win the war that followed.

    That said, considering the major reason for the secession of the rebel states and the war that followed - the preservation of the institution of slavery - there is zero reason why the Confederate flag belongs anywhere outside of a museum or on private property.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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