View Poll Results: Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

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  • Yes

    55 29.57%
  • No

    131 70.43%
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Thread: Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

  1. #1261
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    If by "self-governance" you mean "continue to unjustly enslave blacks" then you'd be accurate.

    Are you trying to argue that secession and the war were not related? What college taught you history? Seriously? Where should i NEVER send my children?
    Yes, self-governance in the case of the secession did in fact include keeping slavery legal. Nowhere did I DENY that, nor did I claim to AGREE to it. Just using their own words from the SC Declaration of Secession document.
    As for the 2nd sentence of your post...

    Aren't you the guy who claimed to have a doctorate degree?
    Im trying to figure out how a doctorate holder can't seem to follow a VERY simple concept... and has to resort to conjuring arguments I never made, and attributing them to me, in order to make his point.

    But, to answer your question in short... No I am not arguing that secession and the war were not related.

    I AM stating that the reasons for secession and the reasons why the war occurred are 2 different reasons. They DO RELATE to one another... but they aren't the the same.

    People with your line of thinking would claim that a man was shot by police because of a seat belt violation. When in actuality, the person shot by police was killed because during a traffic stop for a seat belt violation he pulled out a gun and fired upon police officers, who then killed him.

    Was his death RELATED to a seat belt violation? Sure. Was he shot FOR a seat belt violation? No.

  2. #1262
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    MOST Southerners do not view flag with the same sentiment you and/or others assign it.
    In fact.....

    Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride - CNNPolitics.com

    The more this issue gets talked about..... the more people seem to want to stick up for it.

  3. #1263
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    MOST Southerners do not view flag with the same sentiment you and/or others assign it.
    Most skinheads dont view the Nazi flag like I do either.

    I like how you act as if you are the only thats every been to the Southern States. My family comes from Cullman Alabama. I spent a lot of time there myself. Buried my Dad there next to his Dad. The Confederate battle flag represents Southern whites only. I like how you have turned a blind eye to that fact.

    The civil rights movement is very historical and many Southerners feel that it is apart of their heritage. Perhaps there should be a monument to the civil rights movement at on State grounds. They could fly the relevant flags from the civil rights movement. I certainly dont want to see this end up with the far left being allowed to fly their flags on government property.

  4. #1264
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    That might be true. But if i was in Germany and i put up a swastika flag and said "to me, it stands for rainbows and lollipops," that'd be a pretty terrible excuse based in complete ignorance of history that insults and degrades an entire race of people.
    It also degrades several eastern religions who originally had the swastika symbol in their religious symbology as a symbol of well being.

    But thats also none of my business...........

  5. #1265
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Most skinheads dont view the Nazi flag like I do either.

    I like how you act as if you are the only thats every been to the Southern States. My family comes from Cullman Alabama. I spent a lot of time there myself. Buried my Dad there next to his Dad. The Confederate battle flag represents Southern whites only. I like how you have turned a blind eye to that fact.

    The civil rights movement is very historical and many Southerners feel that it is apart of their heritage. Perhaps there should be a monument to the civil rights movement at on State grounds. They could fly the relevant flags from the civil rights movement. I certainly dont want to see this end up with the far left being allowed to fly their flags on government property.
    Please show where I am acting as if I am the only one that has ever been to the Southern states.

    If the citizens of the state wish to fly a civil rights flag then they should. They just shouldnt be coerced into doing it because a bunch of race bating assholes appealed to their 'white guilt'.

    See the pattern emerging?

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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Please show where I am acting as if I am the only one that has ever been to the Southern states.

    If the citizens of the state wish to fly a civil rights flag then they should. They just shouldnt be coerced into doing it because a bunch of race bating assholes appealed to their 'white guilt'.

    See the pattern emerging?
    Yes I do see the pattern. You seem to conflate the fact that the Confederate States (the people who actually used the Confederate flags) ALL listed Slavery as their main reason for seceding from the Union. The Confederate States insisted that slavery of black people is their right. Claiming that the Confederate flag is our heritage is embarrassing. It is a bad heritage, a heritage that is directly tied at every turn to slavery and white supremacy. ANd the fact that you dont see it that way is why it must be told to you.

    Mississippi Makes it extremely clear what the Confederacy stood for and what their flag stood for:"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world." The Confederate flag is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery.

  7. #1267
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    I'm sorry, but you do not have exclusive access to truth, and i will not let one book overwrite the overwhelming unanimity of academic textbooks on the subject.

    It's ironic, because it is you who refuse to pursue truth.
    No I was taught truth, and it sure as heck was from no "history" book.
    Life is short, ride a horse

  8. #1268
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    G'Day to you too, mate...

    I don't necessarily disagree with your comments.

    My personal opinion is that I don't think that it should be displayed at State governments/institutions. But that's not saying that I opine that it should be banned from existence in the USA. I don't at all see it in the same light as say, Hitler's Swastika flag, which he replaced Germany's national flag with.

    From a historical standpoint, the Confederacy was created by a incredible philosophical division within a nation, between its citizens - over whether there was a fundamental right to own slaves. And in the end...yes...the Confederate flag was symbolic of that division.

    But lets not be naive here.

    At the birth of our nation, the industrial age was at the zygote stage here in American so - "economically speaking" - a fair number of men associated with creating our government hated the idea of industrialization because they believed that our destiny was rooted in fruits of our labor that could only come from working the soil. Obviously - the labor part - is where slavery comes in. At least for the elite who were creating our nation.

    Most of the founders/framers of the United States of America were elite white male slave owners. They made their fortunes using slaves. We don't think about this reality because for all practical purposes it was (and still is) "omitted as a fact of history" in education institutions from the 12 grade and under. Consequently, from an educational standpoint, our young minds were never engaged in a way to even consider that our founders were wrongfully involved in the ownership of other human beings, which were used for uncompensated labor and a considered to be commodities, in and of themselves.

    I've been around a few decades. Until I went to college...just the thought of our founders being slave owners - was a foreign idea or concept. And while college level history doesn't often candy coat history - in my American History class...my mind just skipped over esoteric implications of our founders being slave owners, which should have jarred me, not only intellectually, but emotionally in some way.

    I'm personally not aware of any generation that has been seriously educated about the staunch realities regarding our founders support of, and use of enslaved human beings (which of course they called property). Not only that, but many believed that they had an inalienable right to own a species of life resembling human beings to provide free labor and sell even at will like a John Deere Tractor.

    Even today...by technical/propaganda default (IOWs - by reasons related to the historical gloss over or omission of facts presented to most people) - most folks don't indulge in seriously pondering the fact that our at the dawn of nation - its core economy - had much to do with the use of slave labor for enterprise purposes - and that included breeding and selling slaves. Should people ponder such? I think so. But from reading much of this thread, a lot of people would disagree.

    So...I think that people should have the right to make bumper stickers, Tee-shirts bikinis and beer koozies that looks like a Confederate flag - or even fly one on their own property. And if doing such offends others, too bad. People have the right to be offended. And those who offend have a right to do that too as long as they don't, in some malicious way, cause injury or mortal harm to others.

    After all...that's what a lot of people do the the United States flag. Some folks even burn them. Offensive? I'm betting to a lot of people..yes. But in the same vein, too bad. The 1st Amendment applies to both of these situations.
    I wholeheartedly agree. The first amendment does give people the right to express themselves, within some well-circumscribed limits. I do not believe that any government, or part thereof, in the U.S. should be allowed to fly the Confederate flag on any of its property.

  9. #1269
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Oh...Before I forget...(and really didn't have enough character space in my previous post)....

    What about the flag of England?



    What about the flag of France?



    What about the Netherland's?



    What about Portugal's Flag?



    And of course...there was Spain...but I don't have enough character space.

    Top 6 Countries That Grew Filthy Rich From Enslaving Black People - Atlanta Blackstar

    Just sayin....

    Thanks, mate...
    I repeat my position that all of these countries were involved in the buying, selling, and employment of slaves, but none of them made the enslavement of an entire "inferior" race a fundamental part of their governmental structure, nor of their reason for existing.

  10. #1270
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    Re: Confederate Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yes I do see the pattern. You seem to conflate the fact that the Confederate States (the people who actually used the Confederate flags) ALL listed Slavery as their main reason for seceding from the Union. The Confederate States insisted that slavery of black people is their right. Claiming that the Confederate flag is our heritage is embarrassing. It is a bad heritage, a heritage that is directly tied at every turn to slavery and white supremacy. ANd the fact that you dont see it that way is why it must be told to you.

    Mississippi Makes it extremely clear what the Confederacy stood for and what their flag stood for:"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world." The Confederate flag is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery.
    No...you arent able to see it apparently. I dont care what the states choose...to flu the confederate flag, a civil rights flag, hell...let their freak flag fly. It should just be THEIR choice without coercion by a bunch of cause driven ****heads.

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