• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups?

Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 13.6%
  • No

    Votes: 34 77.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Total voters
    44
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

No, I wouldn't trust the government to know a hate group from a breakfast club.

Good point.
Government's definition comes from the people.
The people are swayed by whatever is topical and prevalent at the time.

Terrorist groups are terrorist groups by what they DO.
Hate groups, generally speaking, are hate groups by what they SAY. (Yeah, I know, some hate groups do take action, but then it's criminal)
That difference can't be highlighted enough, in my view.

You may not like what a hate group says, but that's a case for free speech, not for being treated like a terrorist group that actually DID something.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

If these hate groups break the law and it's hate related then they may be charged with the crime plus a hate crime for added severity.

See, I don't even agree with that.

Is murder, or arson, or destruction of property any more "egregious" because hate, in and of itself, was the motivation?

I don't think so.

If you murder someone you murder someone.

The penalty for murder, or any crime, should be what it is.

If we don't want people murdering each other, and we want the penalty associated with a crime to serve as a deterrent as well as a punishment, then the penalty should be so severe in all cases so as to serve as a suitable deterrent.

If someone kills one of my kids I don't care whether the bastard does it because my son is white or whether he does it because he wants to steal my kid's iPad.

The whole idea of "hate crimes" is ludicrous and panders to ignorance.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

See, I don't even agree with that.

Is murder, or arson, or destruction of property any more "egregious" because hate, in and of itself, was the motivation?
If it's heinous enough sure - it's a hate crime penalty is meant to be more punitive given not just the motivation but possibly when such acts carry malice beyond that which can normally be assessed. Granted, additional punitive charges could just be added on to the main charge which would do the same thing but I think the purpose of a hate crime would be to bring State and/or Federal charges which carry more weight.

I don't think so.

If you murder someone you murder someone.

The penalty for murder, or any crime, should be what it is.
If you murder someone because they are a Jew, and you go out of your way to demonstrate your malice toward Jews (I'm using that as an example so no freak out), and you plan your murder because that person is a Jew (not because the victim and murderer know each other) and the murder takes place. That's not the same as a murder occurring say as a contract killing. Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.

If we don't want people murdering each other, and we want the penalty associated with a crime to serve as a deterrent as well as a punishment, then the penalty should be so severe in all cases so as to serve as a suitable deterrent.
Adding a hate crime charge is not meant to be a deterrent IMO, it's meant as a punitive additional measure.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.

I realize that that's what the law says.

My point is that in my opinion that's stupid.

Murder is murder.

You either kill someone on purpose or you don't.

Again, I don't care if it's because that "someone" is a Jew, or because he has something you want, or because he made eyes at your girlfriend, or because he laughed at your scrawny ass in the locker room.

If you kill someone, on purpose, and not in self defense, I don't really care what your back story is, you should hang from the neck until dead.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

I realize that that's what the law says.

My point is that in my opinion that's stupid.
I get where you're coming from. I just don't agree. You still kill someone AND punitively you never get out of prison with the added charges.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

White Nationalist groups, KKK, New Black Panthers, Conservative Citizens, Aryan Nation, or any other groups that promote hate and encourage others to perpetrate hate against others.

Check what they need to have committed before they can be charged for hate - Inciting is one if I recall?
Your Constitution protects free speech up to and including the freedom of these freaks to spread their hate, have Nazi's - KKK in uniform / bedsheets parade down main street and recruit, to name a few protections..
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

If it's heinous enough sure - it's a hate crime penalty is meant to be more punitive given not just the motivation but possibly when such acts carry malice beyond that which can normally be assessed. Granted, additional punitive charges could just be added on to the main charge which would do the same thing but I think the purpose of a hate crime would be to bring State and/or Federal charges which carry more weight.

If you murder someone because they are a Jew, and you go out of your way to demonstrate your malice toward Jews (I'm using that as an example so no freak out), and you plan your murder because that person is a Jew (not because the victim and murderer know each other) and the murder takes place. That's not the same as a murder occurring say as a contract killing. Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.

Adding a hate crime charge is not meant to be a deterrent IMO, it's meant as a punitive additional measure.
But on the other hand, a Jew might be randomly mugged on the street one night, and end up murdered, and everyone should be comforted in the fact that it was nothing personal... just business.

I'm sorry, but I reject that premise completely.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

But on the other hand, a Jew might be randomly mugged on the street one night, and end up murdered, and everyone should be comforted in the fact that it was nothing personal... just business.

I'm sorry, but I reject that premise completely.

Do you reject punitive dollar amounts being added to civil court cases?
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups? Arresting and detaining leaders of these groups, freezing assets, shutting down websites, and other means of stopping these groups from spreading their hate?

Would that include going after liberal hate groups who denigrate Christians because Biblically-based Christians refuse to honor gay marriage and abortion?
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Do you reject punitive dollar amounts being added to civil court cases?

I do, actually, and have said so before.

The theory behind civil action is to be made whole again, not gain a net profit.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

I do, actually, and have said so before.

The theory behind civil action is to be made whole again, not gain a net profit.

Punitive damages are not part of being made whole at all but over and above being made whole:

Wiki said:
Punitive damages or exemplary damages are damages intended to reform or deter the defendant and others from engaging in conduct similar to that which formed the basis of the lawsuit. Although the purpose of punitive damages is not to compensate the plaintiff, the plaintiff will receive all or some portion of the punitive damage award.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

If that's the case, and you support punitive damages as exemplary - why not in a criminal case with a "hate crime" charge?
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Do you reject punitive dollar amounts being added to civil court cases?
I do, actually, and have said so before.

The theory behind civil action is to be made whole again, not gain a net profit.
Punitive damages are not part of being made whole at all but over and above being made whole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

If that's the case, and you support punitive damages as exemplary - why not in a criminal case with a "hate crime" charge?
You completely misunderstood my response. You asked if I reject punitive damages. I answered in the affirmative, in that I do reject punitive damages.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Would that include going after liberal hate groups who denigrate Christians because Biblically-based Christians refuse to honor gay marriage and abortion?

Are they actively encouraging and convincing people to commit crimes?
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Then absolutely. Law enforcement pursues criminals. That's how it works already.

Hope this information is useful to you.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Would that include going after liberal hate groups who denigrate Christians because Biblically-based Christians refuse to honor gay marriage and abortion?

Well if those liberals were committing crimes in the process like the OP apparently means, then absolutely!
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

You completely misunderstood my response. You asked if I reject punitive damages. I answered in the affirmative, in that I do reject punitive damages.

No I didn't misunderstand at all. I asked if you disagree with punitive damages in civil court cases and you clearly said the following:

radcen said:
I do, actually, and have said so before.

I'm fine if you want to say you misspoke or misunderstood my question and didn't answer correctly but that was about as direct of an answer to a direct question as DP ever gets. Tell me what I misunderstood (if it wasn't a mistaken post on your part).
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

No I didn't misunderstand at all. I asked if you disagree with punitive damages in civil court cases and you clearly said the following:



I'm fine if you want to say you misspoke or misunderstood my question and didn't answer correctly but that was about as direct of an answer to a direct question as DP ever gets. Tell me what I misunderstood (if it wasn't a mistaken post on your part).
Stop. You asked if I rejected punitive damages... your words, not mine... and affirmed that I do reject them, and I even quoted your question.

If you don't have the basic intellectual maturity to suck it up and admit a simple mistake, then you're not worth my time.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Both are hate groups, one even more dangerous than the other .. We do have just so many resources, so we must concentrate on the more dangerous one .
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Stop. You asked if I rejected punitive damages... your words, not mine... and affirmed that I do reject them, and I even quoted your question.
What I asked is plainly there to see in my post #58.

If you don't have the basic intellectual maturity to suck it up and admit a simple mistake, then you're not worth my time.
The intellectual maturity is in post #58 and your reply in your post #60.

Tell me where I'm misunderstanding. I made no mistake. My view is and has been I support punitive damages in civil cases and I support hate crimes in criminal cases as a punitive measure. I gave you an opportunity to clarify your position and you then accuse me of making a mistake and being intellectually immature?

:lamo

The loss of intellectual maturity is yours. Feel free to not respond to my posts in the future if you want to continue with your lame accusations. It won't hurt my feelings at all.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups? Arresting and detaining leaders of these groups, freezing assets, shutting down websites, and other means of stopping these groups from spreading their hate?

Sure....as soon as they break laws

Until then, leave them the hell alone

Everyone is entitled to bad opinions......even you
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

White Nationalist groups, KKK, New Black Panthers, Conservative Citizens, Aryan Nation, or any other groups that promote hate and encourage others to perpetrate hate against others.

The First Amendment guarantees the freedoms of speech and association. This is still a free country, in spite of the best efforts of intolerant leftist know-nothings, and any group of people can get together and talk all they like about how people of this or that race, nationality, religion, etc. are the scourge of the earth and have no right to live. Any American has the right to hate the living guts on anyone he damn well pleases, for any reason whatever, and to say so.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

White Nationalist groups, KKK, New Black Panthers, Conservative Citizens, Aryan Nation, or any other groups that promote hate and encourage others to perpetrate hate against others.

I would support the government going after hate groups who are actively involved in terrorism, murder or violence....and they do. If a group merely holds meetings and expresses their hatred, however repugnant it may be, there are first amendment issues. However the real question is why did you include "Conservative Citzens" in your list of hate groups??????? Perhaps you need to lighten up on your own level of hatred.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Occupy people and the kkk are not the same. The kkk have historically used violence to intimidate and threaten. They also encourage others to use violence.

I have no use for the KKK, however they are a mere shadow of their former selves Today they manage little more then holding parades in small rural towns. The Aryan Movement is the dangerous one. As for Occupy Wall street, it is also a hate group. While it is not on the same level of the KKK, it is a lawless group of morons who riot, and destroy property.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

Monitoring and stopping are not the same. These groups use violence and encourage it. But only the individuals are pursued. What about the others who are actively encouraging the activity. Teaching the hate. Essentially causing these things. Freedom of speech shouldn't protect the right to promote hate and violence against others. We can target the mafia for being members, we can detain terrorists for affiliation. Why shouldn't we purge society of these groups who are actively promoting hate against Americans?

In that case, the government should be going after Al Sharpton.
 
Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

I voted no. The government can't even prosecute the hate groups that caused the 2008 crash of our economy, or the hate groups who killed eleven oil platform workers and polluted the gulf of mexico.
 
Back
Top Bottom