View Poll Results: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups?

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    6 13.64%
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    34 77.27%
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Thread: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups?

  1. #51
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    No, I wouldn't trust the government to know a hate group from a breakfast club.
    Good point.
    Government's definition comes from the people.
    The people are swayed by whatever is topical and prevalent at the time.

    Terrorist groups are terrorist groups by what they DO.
    Hate groups, generally speaking, are hate groups by what they SAY. (Yeah, I know, some hate groups do take action, but then it's criminal)
    That difference can't be highlighted enough, in my view.

    You may not like what a hate group says, but that's a case for free speech, not for being treated like a terrorist group that actually DID something.
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
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  2. #52
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If these hate groups break the law and it's hate related then they may be charged with the crime plus a hate crime for added severity.
    See, I don't even agree with that.

    Is murder, or arson, or destruction of property any more "egregious" because hate, in and of itself, was the motivation?

    I don't think so.

    If you murder someone you murder someone.

    The penalty for murder, or any crime, should be what it is.

    If we don't want people murdering each other, and we want the penalty associated with a crime to serve as a deterrent as well as a punishment, then the penalty should be so severe in all cases so as to serve as a suitable deterrent.

    If someone kills one of my kids I don't care whether the bastard does it because my son is white or whether he does it because he wants to steal my kid's iPad.

    The whole idea of "hate crimes" is ludicrous and panders to ignorance.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    See, I don't even agree with that.

    Is murder, or arson, or destruction of property any more "egregious" because hate, in and of itself, was the motivation?
    If it's heinous enough sure - it's a hate crime penalty is meant to be more punitive given not just the motivation but possibly when such acts carry malice beyond that which can normally be assessed. Granted, additional punitive charges could just be added on to the main charge which would do the same thing but I think the purpose of a hate crime would be to bring State and/or Federal charges which carry more weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I don't think so.

    If you murder someone you murder someone.

    The penalty for murder, or any crime, should be what it is.
    If you murder someone because they are a Jew, and you go out of your way to demonstrate your malice toward Jews (I'm using that as an example so no freak out), and you plan your murder because that person is a Jew (not because the victim and murderer know each other) and the murder takes place. That's not the same as a murder occurring say as a contract killing. Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    If we don't want people murdering each other, and we want the penalty associated with a crime to serve as a deterrent as well as a punishment, then the penalty should be so severe in all cases so as to serve as a suitable deterrent.
    Adding a hate crime charge is not meant to be a deterrent IMO, it's meant as a punitive additional measure.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #54
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.
    I realize that that's what the law says.

    My point is that in my opinion that's stupid.

    Murder is murder.

    You either kill someone on purpose or you don't.

    Again, I don't care if it's because that "someone" is a Jew, or because he has something you want, or because he made eyes at your girlfriend, or because he laughed at your scrawny ass in the locker room.

    If you kill someone, on purpose, and not in self defense, I don't really care what your back story is, you should hang from the neck until dead.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  5. #55
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I realize that that's what the law says.

    My point is that in my opinion that's stupid.
    I get where you're coming from. I just don't agree. You still kill someone AND punitively you never get out of prison with the added charges.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #56
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    White Nationalist groups, KKK, New Black Panthers, Conservative Citizens, Aryan Nation, or any other groups that promote hate and encourage others to perpetrate hate against others.
    Check what they need to have committed before they can be charged for hate - Inciting is one if I recall?
    Your Constitution protects free speech up to and including the freedom of these freaks to spread their hate, have Nazi's - KKK in uniform / bedsheets parade down main street and recruit, to name a few protections..
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  7. #57
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If it's heinous enough sure - it's a hate crime penalty is meant to be more punitive given not just the motivation but possibly when such acts carry malice beyond that which can normally be assessed. Granted, additional punitive charges could just be added on to the main charge which would do the same thing but I think the purpose of a hate crime would be to bring State and/or Federal charges which carry more weight.

    If you murder someone because they are a Jew, and you go out of your way to demonstrate your malice toward Jews (I'm using that as an example so no freak out), and you plan your murder because that person is a Jew (not because the victim and murderer know each other) and the murder takes place. That's not the same as a murder occurring say as a contract killing. Murder is not murder - there are different levels of murder and different severity's.

    Adding a hate crime charge is not meant to be a deterrent IMO, it's meant as a punitive additional measure.
    But on the other hand, a Jew might be randomly mugged on the street one night, and end up murdered, and everyone should be comforted in the fact that it was nothing personal... just business.

    I'm sorry, but I reject that premise completely.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

  8. #58
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    But on the other hand, a Jew might be randomly mugged on the street one night, and end up murdered, and everyone should be comforted in the fact that it was nothing personal... just business.

    I'm sorry, but I reject that premise completely.
    Do you reject punitive dollar amounts being added to civil court cases?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #59
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups? Arresting and detaining leaders of these groups, freezing assets, shutting down websites, and other means of stopping these groups from spreading their hate?
    Would that include going after liberal hate groups who denigrate Christians because Biblically-based Christians refuse to honor gay marriage and abortion?
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  10. #60
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    Re: Would you support the government pursuing hate groups as they do terrorist groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Do you reject punitive dollar amounts being added to civil court cases?
    I do, actually, and have said so before.

    The theory behind civil action is to be made whole again, not gain a net profit.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

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