View Poll Results: was he South Carolina Churc shooting an act of terrorism

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  • It was aTerroist act.

    26 53.06%
  • It was a hate crime only

    4 8.16%
  • It was a crazy Guy

    6 12.24%
  • terrorist 1st hate 2nd nut job 3rd in that order

    13 26.53%
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Thread: Was the South Carolina chuch shootings an act of terrorism

  1. #41
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    maybe in some cases, the lack of a hate crime statute may lead to too light a sentence

    in this case, it has no relevance given 9 counts of first degree premeditated murder means that this shooter is toast. pure and simple. and there are plenty of people in law enforcement that wonder about the usefulness of "hate crime" designations. rather we are better off with what is called "aggravating" circumstances that don't appear to be the product of political correctness or pandering to various interest groups
    Are you suggesting that it's not a hate crime? Why would there be so much reluctance to call it what it is in this instance?

    I'll ask the same of you as I did Nota. Why did you use quotation marks for "hate crime"
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    What you have is a hate crime that South Carolina cannot officially recognise as such even though the Charleston Police Chief, the Mayor and the FBI are defining the incident as a hate crime.

    Why did you use quotation marks for "hate crime" Nota?
    Only to signify the category, not to diminish.

  3. #43
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Are you suggesting that it's not a hate crime? Why would there be so much reluctance to call it what it is in this instance?

    I'll ask the same of you as I did Nota. Why did you use quotation marks for "hate crime"
    the problem with that question is I don't know what definition you are using

    hate crime can be a generic term where "hate" motivates the action rather than other nefarious motives

    or it can be a specific legal term which in this jurisdiction may not exist

    certainly someone trying to start a race war is motivated by unfathomable levels of racist hatred which appears to be the case here

    but if SC has no hate crime designation, then under their law its premeditated murder

    in my position, premeditated murder of purely innocent victims is bad enough whatever the motivations are
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  4. #44
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    I was reading some information earlier that stated that South Carolina has never been able to get a hate crime bill passed so they don't actually have any hate crime laws on their books.

    I checked other sources to verify it because I thought surely that can't be right. Unfortunately it is.
    Maybe they realized that someone who is murdered because of the color of their skin is no less dead than someone who is murdered for any other reason.Maybe they realize that the loved ones of most murdered people are not saying "oh thank god my loved one wasn't murdered because of their skin color".
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #45
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The one reported item that makes me say "Yes" to the terrorist act is that he left the one woman alive and told her he was doing it on purpose so she would tell people what he did here. THAT is not just a nut job, not just a mentally ill murderer, not just a drug addled racist but an act of terrorism. IF that turns out to be accurate as it's been reported so far, yeah it was a terrorist act on top of everything else against the black community.
    So the media acting like useful idiots are giving the scumbag his 15 minutes of fame and thus spreading his message.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Yes it was obviously.

    From a biological perspective the kid ended his line. He won't have any kids unless he gets a prison worker pregnant which isn't all too likely. From what I saw he only actually killed two young black men the other people were all much older and likely had kids so basically he ended a white line and only ended two black lines for his one. Not a very good "trade off" according to his own racist ideology. Basically a failed attack if he was attempting to stop "Blacks from taking over the country" as he claimed.

  7. #47
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by plutonium View Post
    Since the 9-11 terrorist attack I believe USA have named acts of terrorism.. one I heard was that even if a gang threatens or hurt innocent people it is an act of terrorism ..if a Muslim kills an American it is an act of terrorism. radical Muslims hate Americans right? and if they kill a group of Americans like in Boston they were called terrorist well this boy hated blacks Americans and he killed a group of Americans does that make him a terrorist? or does the color make the difference between terrorism and a hate crime? what do you think. sorry for the miss spelling of the poll heading should read (Was the South Carolina church shooting an act of terrorism)
    To my thinking, the difference between a terrorist attack and a hate crime is that a terrorist attack includes an element of wanting to disrupt society. It isn't just an act of hatred or bigotry -- it's also an act of psychological warfare.

    Because Roof wanted to send a message to America as a whole and cause fear in the black community, I would class him as a terrorist.

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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Terrorism is defined not least by it's intention. He fits the bill.
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    He killed in order to achieve a sociopolitical end. If that isn't terrorism, what is?

  10. #50
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    Re: Was the South Carolina church shootings an act of terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    maybe in some cases, the lack of a hate crime statute may lead to too light a sentence

    in this case, it has no relevance given 9 counts of first degree premeditated murder means that this shooter is toast. pure and simple. and there are plenty of people in law enforcement that wonder about the usefulness of "hate crime" designations. rather we are better off with what is called "aggravating" circumstances that don't appear to be the product of political correctness or pandering to various interest groups
    The point of "mitigating circumstances" is to *lessen* the culpability, not to define a crime as more severe than usual. Perhaps the real problem is that charges like "assault" don't have a wide gap in sentencing. Then again, some judges are crazy and it's bad news to give them that leeway

    Forget this particular case because yeah a murder case itself makes hate crime charges pointless

    But consider an assault when the attempt is to steal a wallet, versus an attack by several cowards in white robes because the target is black or some other characteristic. The trauma to the victim can easily become more lingering because he thinks no precaution can be taken, he's not safe anywhere, and it aligns with hostility he's faced in the past. He may internalize it as a deserved beating, since it's so personal

    The potential damage to victims is routinely a factor in sentencing. Rape and kidnapping for instance are dealt with far more harshly than a physical beating, because the psychological long-term effects are usually different. Hate crimes can leave the victim a wreck and the reason south carolina doesn't have such a law isn't because they're oh-so astute public policy makers think that it's wise. It's the same reason they still have the confederate flag at the capitol

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