View Poll Results: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

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  • Yes

    5 16.13%
  • No

    24 77.42%
  • Other

    2 6.45%
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Thread: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

  1. #41
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    Occam's Razor's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    All Fast Track means is that it is an up or down vote - Congress doesn't get to renegotiate the trade deal, that's the Executives' job. It doesn't mean that Congress has to pass it in any length of time, or even that they have to pass it. It just means they can't amend it. This is the exact same process that we already have in place for Treaties.
    Yep, that seems to make it sound pretty cherry... And I misspoke throwing aid relief in. Always happy to have my ignorance pointed out and corrected.

    However, my answer still largely remains. Which is weird. Normally I'd be all for bills being passed without congress inserting their special little projects as riders.

    Lately though, I've just plain had it with all things secretive. Tired of trade plans being sold as beneficial to the masses when they do little good for American workers and give all the gains to corporations and their top investors and executives.

    Unconstitutional: Groups opposed to Trade Promotion Authority claim that it places too much power in the executive branch, "allowing the president to unilaterally select partner countries for ‘trade’ pacts, decide the agreements' contents, and then negotiate and sign the agreements—all before Congress has a vote on the matter. Normal congressional committee processes are forbidden, meaning that the executive branch is empowered to write lengthy legislation on its own with no review or amendments."
    "Fast Track: An Undemocratic Path to Unfair 'Trade'". Public Citizen

    Lack of transparency: Democratic members of Congress and general right-to-know internet groups are among those opposed to trade fast track on grounds of a lack of transparency. Such Congressmen have complained that fast track forces "members to jump over hurdles to see negotiation texts and blocks staffer involvement. In 2012, Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) complained that corporate lobbyists were given easy access while his office was being stymied, and even introduced protest legislation requiring more congressional input."
    Carter, Zach; McAuliff, Michael. "Why House Democrats Might Kill Obama's Big Trade Deal". The Huffington Post.
    Spin Proof

  2. #42
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    Re: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Giving the President the ability to negotiate without Congressional interference and then present the trade deal to Congress for an up or down vote is an independent issue from the Trade Pacific Partnership itself.
    One of them is a separation of powers, and the other is a trade deal that requires congressional approval. The Executive would retain the ability to present trade deals to Congress and have them actually vote on them after the TPP either passed (which I hope it does) or failed.[/QUOTE]

    Ummm we have been negotiating this trade deal way before we gave him the authority....
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

  3. #43
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    Re: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Yep, that seems to make it sound pretty cherry... And I misspoke throwing aid relief in. Always happy to have my ignorance pointed out and corrected.

    However, my answer still largely remains. Which is weird. Normally I'd be all for bills being passed without congress inserting their special little projects as riders.

    Lately though, I've just plain had it with all things secretive. Tired of trade plans being sold as beneficial to the masses when they do little good for American workers and give all the gains to corporations and their top investors and executives.


    A) Congress has no business negotiating with other countries - that is explicitly an Executive function. It is Constitutionally an Executive Function. It is, in fact, one of the reasons we have the Constitution in the first place. Under the Articles of Confederation, other nations didn't know who to negotiate with (and differing portions of the government all attempted to claim a role), and it created havoc with American foreign policy.

    B) Keeping negotiations to the negotiators during the negotiation itself is a fairly typical part of the process, not some sinister, secretive plot. It's a way to allow all partners to make offers and compromises without having interest groups destroy the process before a deal is made. A Constitutional example of this would be the Constitutional Convention itself, which was conducted in extreme secrecy before being made public, being put up for public debate, and being sent to the States for an up-or-down vote... which is pretty much the exact same process here. It's not secret before you vote, it's public before you vote. It's simply secret while going on.

    Even Ted Cruz (who has taken a look at this thing) says he didn't see any problems. You're not likely to find someone who can be trusted more to oppose this administration and even his own party leadership than Cruz.






    As a Side Note: Everyone here who is upset about giving the executive the ability to do it's job in negotiating with foreign countries without Congress attempting to take part in the negotiations who was also upset or thought it was wrong when Congressional Republicans wrote a letter in the Wall Street Journal to the leadership of Iran, raise your hands. Care to explain your position to us?
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  4. #44
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    Re: Do You Support Fast Track (TPP/TPA)?

    Clinton's Profile in Cravenness on Trade - New York Post

    Hillary Clinton wouldn’t be the first Democratic presidential nominee who was for something before she was against it. But her turnaround on President Obama’s trade deal rivals John Kerry’s famous flip-flop on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Secretary of State Clinton was one of the most vocal and enthusiastic supporters of Obama’s ambitious 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact.
    She cited its “strong protection for workers and the environment” and its promise of “better jobs with higher wages and safer working conditions for women, migrant workers and others too often in the past excluded from the formal economy.”
    But she wasn’t for running for president then, just working for one. Now, with her eye on Obama’s job, she’s not such a big fan. . . .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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