View Poll Results: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

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  • American Suburban Women are Conservative Voters

    3 33.33%
  • American Suburban Women are Liberal Voters

    6 66.67%
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Thread: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?[W:29]

  1. #121
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    Where have you been darlin'...quotas are a fond memory. My first grown up job was business to business sales...and I was told that I was the "experiment" because the company had NEVER hired or promoted a woman into sales. They want to drive their revenue numbers and thought a 24 year old girl was just the ticket. I worked harder than any man in the department and they loved me. I even had an account taken away from me because I did not want to spend my afternoons in a strip club doing business...and still made it to High Achievers club. (Ford Motor was the client). The point is, no one gave me anything...I worked every weekend, drove 300-500 miles per week and 12 hour days...much more than the guys. By the time I was 30, I was training all of the sales people in the company, traveling across the US 4 days per week. Women work hard...and to make that statement insults every hard working professional woman in this country...
    Honestly, I think women in sales are kind of hard to beat. All they've got to do is flirt a bit, and most guys will stop thinking with their one brain, and start thinking with the other. A lot of men have a tendency to start spontaneously hemorrhaging money shortly thereafter.

    More and more businesses seem to be figuring this out too. Bar tending, for example, is quickly becoming a largely female dominated profession, from what I've seen. Women already have some pretty major sections of the service sector cornered as well.

    I think that state of affairs most likely accounts for the discrepancy S&M mentioned earlier (though she was overstating it a little bit). Not only are young men a bit less motivated today than they were in the past, but the limited opportunities that are available in today's struggling - and increasingly service and sales oriented - economy tend to pretty highly favor female skillsets over the male variety. This has given young women something of a leg up over their male peers when it comes to establishing themselves.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-16-15 at 11:20 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Honestly, I think women in sales are kind of hard to beat. All they've got to do is flirt a bit, and most guys will stop thinking their one brain, and start thinking with the other. A lot of men have a tendency to start spontaneously hemorrhaging money shortly thereafter.

    More and more businesses seem to be figuring this out too. Bar tending, for example, is quickly becoming a largely female dominated profession, from what I've seen. Women already have some pretty major sections of the service sector cornered as well.

    I think that state of affairs most likely accounts for the discrepancy S&M mentioned earlier (though she was overstating it a little bit). Not only are young men a bit less motivated today than they were in the past, but the limited opportunities that are available in today's struggling - and increasingly service and sales oriented - economy tend to pretty highly favor female skillsets over the male variety. This has given young women something of a leg up over their male peers when it comes to establishing themselves.
    I was not the "sexy type"....more the athletic sister or girl next door type. If anything appealed to my clients, it was the "daughter" thing. LOL. Funny that you mentioned bartending....that was the path to my grown up job. Many of the marketing students sold door to door, cook books, encyclopedias, etc. My proven track was my bar sales. We were goaled by bar management to produce X amount of alcohol sales every shift...I bought a fake ID in Daytona Beach on Spring Break when I was 20 and started bar tending immediately...earning a grand in three days. LOL I agree...it does seem to be harder for younger guys to get going...What is up with that? I think it is growing pains...they just take longer to figure it out. I think guys in your age group are terrific fathers tho...very involved and active with their children. It is a weird job market for our current young college graduates. Healthcare seems to be the only industry that snaps them up when they graduate. It used to be, you had mentors, or folks who took you under their arm to groom you, now it seems to be sink or swim.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    I was not the "sexy type"....more the athletic sister or girl next door type. If anything appealed to my clients, it was the "daughter" thing. LOL. Funny that you mentioned bartending....that was the path to my grown up job. Many of the marketing students sold door to door, cook books, encyclopedias, etc. My proven track was my bar sales. We were goaled by bar management to produce X amount of alcohol sales every shift...I bought a fake ID in Daytona Beach on Spring Break when I was 20 and started bar tending immediately...earning a grand in three days. LOL I agree...it does seem to be harder for younger guys to get going...What is up with that? I think it is growing pains...they just take longer to figure it out. I think guys in your age group are terrific fathers tho...very involved and active with their children. It is a weird job market for our current young college graduates. Healthcare seems to be the only industry that snaps them up when they graduate. It used to be, you had mentors, or folks who took you under their arm to groom you, now it seems to be sink or swim.
    I agree. The lack of the support networks and social expectations of yesteryear certainly plays a role. A lot of guys simply lack direction, which often leads to fumbled starts in life. The other problem, as I mentioned before, is that the job market sucks, and the jobs that are available tend to cater more towards female skills than male skills.

    I mean... Sure. There are some really charming guys out there. However, by and large men tend to be a lot less socially inclined than women. In an economy where the vast majority of jobs available to young adults are either in service (waiting, retail, etca) or sales, and pretty much all dependent upon being a veritable "social butterfly" to get ahead, that kind of bites us in the butt a little bit. The simple fact of the matter is that a perky little energetic twenty something female with a big smile on her face 24/7 is a heck of a lot more likely to please customers (and managers/interviewers, for that matter), get the sale, and therefore get or keep a job, than me, with my "resting Vulcan" face.

    Skilled labor and manufacturing are where men have traditionally tended to excel, and jobs in all of those fields are in decline at the moment. The other male staples - business and security/military/law enforcement - simply don't have enough jobs to go around.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-16-15 at 11:52 PM.

  4. #124
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Yes, a daddy figure. You believe women think like children in their politics and need someone to support them.
    No - you are projecting. I think that women are more risk averse than men and that unmarried women therefore place a premium on economic security over economic opportunity.

    I'm not exactly making this up:

    Why do married and unmarried women tend to see the political world so differently?

    For one thing, conservative women are more likely to be married, though of course many liberal women are married, too. Democratic pollster Celinda Lake says unmarried women as a group start out as more liberal-leaning than married women. And they are often hard-pressed economically.

    Most unmarried women — 54% — have annual household incomes below $30,000, according to the Census; that's twice the percentage of married women with incomes that low. Most married women — 51% — have household incomes of $50,000 and above; that's double the number of single women with income that high. That makes single women more anxious than their married friends about bread-and-butter issues, less confident of having health coverage and more likely to take an expansive view of what the government can and should do to maintain safety-net programs..."Money-wise, it's very hard, especially as a single parent," says Evelyn Ocasio, 34, a widow who supports four children with her job as a receptionist. She is waiting at the edge of Wilmington's downtown square for the bus she takes to work....

    Married women, who often have the security of two paychecks in a household, are more likely to cite Bush's leadership against terrorism as a compelling reason to support him.

    The suburban women dubbed "soccer moms" in 2000 have been renamed "security moms" in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks. One of the TV ads the Bush campaign is airing is aimed straight at them: "I can't imagine the great agony of a mom or a dad having to make the decision about which child to pick up first on September the 11th," the president says."Safety, that's No. 1," says Donna Stranahan, 39, who is married and has two children. She and a friend, Kathy Garrett, are on their way back to work after lunch. "I feel like living in the world today, you have to constantly be looking over your shoulder," agrees Garrett, 46, who is married. She's enrolled her 10-year-old daughter in a karate class to help ensure she can handle herself. She is registered as a Democrat but plans to vote for Bush.

    "He had the gumption and the nerve to not just sit there and keep getting hit in the face" after 9/11, she says....
    -------------------------------

    You might not think that a group that runs from not-yet-married college students to inner-city single mothers and divorced professionals had much in common. Yet strategists and pollsters report that—even after controlling for such variables as race, age, religiosity and income—marital status is a powerful predictor of Democratic voting (whereas married women and older widows lean slightly Republican). The key to the puzzle appears to involve attitudes to government safety nets, and a shared sense among unmarried women that they are trying to survive without any back-up in a harsh, increasingly insecure economy (unmarried women are disproportionately likely to work in jobs which do not offer health cover, for instance). Put another way, the conservative battle-cry of “Leave me the Hell alone” sounds different when you are literally on your own....
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #125
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors
    If you're going to make these sorts of sexist insinuations, you should at least have the cajones to just be honest about it rather than playing dumb.
    play of the Sexist Card indicates your argument is fail.

    You are simply choosing not to listen. The fact is, women in all demographics are dominantly liberal.
    This claim is inaccurate, as I have already cited to you. Married women are pretty consistent on this, and have been for decades.

    I have provided proof of such. However, older people vote more consistently. Therefore, in some demographics, conservative women appear more predominant.
    On the contrary, when it comes to quite a few questions, marriage is a stronger determinant than age.

    ...Take the question of whether the increase in working moms has made it harder for marriages to succeed. Among respondents under 30, the percentage who espoused this view was 36. Among respondents aged 30–49, the percentage rose to 54. But in the older age brackets—50 to 64, and 65 and over—there was no further increase. People born in the 1970s didn’t answer the question any differently from people born in the 1940s. The only division was between those who had turned 30 and those who hadn’t.

    That raises an alternative possibility. Maybe the difference between under-30s and their elders isn’t the era in which they grew up. Maybe it’s a lack of life experience. As young people pass from their 20s to their 30s, they get married and have kids. They lose their naļvete about self-realization, having it all, the equality of family structures, and the interchangeability of moms and dads. According to this theory, the reason why older people are more likely to believe that unwed motherhood is a big problem, or that kids do better with stay-at-home moms, is that beyond the age of 30, you discover that these things are true....

    The tables exposed similar gaps based on marital experience. Compared with people who had never been married, those who were married at the time of the survey were more likely to say that working mothers made it harder to raise kids (82 vs. 62 percent), more likely to say that working mothers made it harder for marriages to succeed (56 vs. 37 percent), more likely to say that kids were better off with their mothers at home (56 vs. 30 percent), and more likely to say that unwed motherhood was a big problem (74 vs. 44 percent). In nearly every case, the gap between marrieds and never-marrieds was bigger than the gap between the youngest age group (18–29) and the oldest (65+). If you want to predict what somebody thinks about women and families, marital experience is a better clue than age....

    Marriage and child-rearing make us more conservative, as it provides greater economic security for those who are risk-averse, and an investment in the future for those who are risk-seeking or naturally short-term focused.

    As an anecdotal example, when asked about the long-term effects of all the debt-financed spending that he was advocating, Keynes famously responded that "in the long run, we're all dead". That was an acceptable answer to him - he had no children. It is not an acceptable answer to someone whose kids and grandkids will have to live in the world that they are helping to create.

    But population-wide, women are still more liberal than conservative across all demographics. So, no -- you are mathematically wrong.
    So you are claiming that there is this large group of married, liberal women, who are all just too young to care about voting? Even if that is accurate (and I am not saying that it is), then that, too, would be expected (changes rarely occur instantaneously), and also would not be enough to override the rest of married womanhood.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  6. #126
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors
    Stop minimizing the the work of women.
    no one is minimizing the work of women. Stop using accusations of mean-ole-sexism to cover for a lack of willingness to respond to what people are actually saying.

    Men choose not to pursue their education at all more so than women.
    That's right, they do. Not least because (as identified) our education system is broadly set up to reward behaviors females are more skilled in (such as, for example, the ability of 9 year olds to sit still and concentrate for 30-45 minutes at a time) and because adolescent males increasingly lack forced maturation. Broadly speaking, our education system is designed by women, implemented by women, overseen by women, and benefits females. That's not any kind of conspiracy, it's just people doing what they think works best.

    Women aren't being coddled into the system. They are choosing to pursue it, whereas men are not.
    agreed.

    Furthermore, the American style of education hasn't changed over the entire course of our country's history.
    you may want to check with Fiddy on that. However, I agree that the education system is only part of the problem - the culture is another major problem.

    As far as my comments on why Republicans have a hard time courting women, that phrase is a direct quote from an actual Republican politician.
    No it's not, it's a citation of a single state-level legislator who was quoting someone else who wasn't even talking about actual rape, but rather premarital sex. There is more evidence that Democrats are the pro-illegal-gun-running party. But hey, it's hard to gin up outrage in an election year when you keep things in context .

    Your second assertion is ridiculous. Women are dramatically more likely to be pro-choice than men.
    On the contrary - Women are significantly more likely to be in favor of limiting abortion than men.

    Washington Post-ABC News Poll: 60% of women favor restricting abortion after 20 weeks, compared to 53% of men.

    Quinnipiac: 8% of women favor banning abortion in all cases, compared to 6% of men. 60% of women favor allowing unrestricted abortion only up to 20 weeks, compared to 50% of men

    I am not defining medical decisions as only abortion -- although it's that too. Republicans seek to limit women's healthcare pretty much across the board.
    Oh. Okay. Where are Republicans seeking to limit women's ability to get open-heart surgery? Hey, in the debate over over-the-counter birth control, which party is arguing in favor of it, v which party is arguing in favor of limiting women's access by forcing them to get a prescription? Where, other than abortion are Republicans trying to limit "women's health care" v arguing for policies that increase individual choice?

    The Republican party can't gain the majority of women in ANY demographic, married or unmarried.
    Except, of course, that they consistently do.

    It's just that older people vote more, and thus more married women who are Republican show up to the polls.
    1. you get plenty of people who register Democrat (or maintain earlier registrations) and then vote Republican
    2. Contra the President, non-voters don't count in a vote.
    3. Your argument is partially self defeating given that younger women are also less likely to be married.

    If you are going to continue ignoring the evidence directly contrary to your claims, don't bother.
    You cited a single January/May 2009 poll that showed a democrat advantage among married women of 3% above the margin of error against decades of evidence in the opposite direction.

    Sure. Okay. And George W Bush has stratospheric approval ratings. Don't believe me? Here's this poll from right after 9/11.

    I certainty won't. I just felt it necessary to point out your intentional dodging in owning your insinuations about women's intellects. That kind of dishonesty bugs me.
    no one is insinuating anything about women's intellects other than YOU bringing in the daddy-bit and ME arguing that women are better at concentrating on school work as children.

    Incidentally, you have the parental roles reversed - Republicans are the Daddy Party, Democrats are the Mommy Party.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  7. #127
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    I don't see why the OP is being attacked for starting a discussion on how certain demographics vote; that is a legitimate discussion. Of course women don't vote en masse, they are too large of a demographic group to do so. They do however tend to vote democrat more than men, although suburban women probably are one of the more swing-y demographics, due to the middle class nature of suburbia.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Broadly speaking, our education system is designed by women, implemented by women, overseen by women, and benefits females. That's not any kind of conspiracy, it's just people doing what they think works best.

    you may want to check with Fiddy on that. However, I agree that the education system is only part of the problem - the culture is another major problem.
    It depends on what one means by "change" in the education system. For instance, it's overwhelmingly clear that pedagogical orientations have shifted dramatically from generation to generation, just as it is clear that demographics of students and duration of study have also significantly changed since the the colonial era on up. Now, if you are perhaps the most radical of progressive educationists, you would describe that the power dynamics as well as the physical space of the classroom itself hasn't had much revision since the early formation of the American public school system or at the very least since American industrialism of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, you'd have a point. If you were to suggest, however, from a progressive education standpoint that progressivism hadn't affected the American public school system since the early 20th century, that would be a significant exaggeration.

    Now, gender dynamics are much much more complicated and are probably not going to satisfy either of you. It'll be a bit hasty of a writing, so don't expect this to be terribly thorough. By the early 20th century, the American public school system was both professionalizing as it was becoming solidly a woman-dominated profession. Coincidentally, understandings of student behavior, intelligence, and so forth were going through a series of revisions. Problem students, as it were, were becoming increasingly concentrated in sex identification. In terms of sheer physical aggression, inattentiveness, and so forth, men were becoming identified as needing to be syphoned into isolated circles away from the rest of the student population. However, at the same time, women, for reasons often involving their sexuality, were becoming problem students and needing of serious reforms and punishments. Now, likewise, in terms of what was expected of women and what was expected of men in terms of academics and life prospects, we have to recall that in a pre-Title IX environment, yes, women were idealized to become the homemaker and if need be, work "suitable for women" (secretarial work, nursing at the bourgeois level...and whatever else if you were not in that grouping). In fact, even in the years immediately proceeding Title IX's passing, I have found that at the state level as well as the curriculum level, there was a significant understanding from entry-level bureaucrats (your teachers) that there was"men's education" and "women's education" ; "men's vocations" and "women's vocations." The former was often more prestigious and producing in material success, while the latter was somewhat directed to lesser qualifications, monetary compensation, and prestige. It was in violation of federal guidelines, but it persisted all the same. This was exacerbated if the student was in special education (in fact, it is not surprising that women can argue that the effect still applies in special education today).
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-18-15 at 09:44 PM.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no one is minimizing the work of women. Stop using accusations of mean-ole-sexism to cover for a lack of willingness to respond to what people are actually saying.



    That's right, they do. Not least because (as identified) our education system is broadly set up to reward behaviors females are more skilled in (such as, for example, the ability of 9 year olds to sit still and concentrate for 30-45 minutes at a time) and because adolescent males increasingly lack forced maturation. Broadly speaking, our education system is designed by women, implemented by women, overseen by women, and benefits females. That's not any kind of conspiracy, it's just people doing what they think works best.

    you may want to check with Fiddy on that. However, I agree that the education system is only part of the problem - the culture is another major problem.

    Now if you're wanting something about contemporary culture, I can also vouch for some of what CP has to say. The education field and that of the human service field in general, is overwhelmingly dominated by women. Much of this is a continued reflection of cultural femininity and the need to take feminine virtues of motherhood into the public sector (often previously demanded and reinforced by men), but it also carries with it some additional pieces of baggage. Male behavior (especially with certain additional demographic markers) has become increasingly targeted by an education field dominated by women. As in the past, but always shifting and sometimes worsening, student diagnoses of emotional and behavioral disorders carry with them consequences inside the schools that are often unique to the school setting. Men continue to have a disproportionate diagnosis rate and a disproportionate punishment rate in the schools and yes, it has often been established in the research journals for thirty years that gender dynamics play a role. Now, it's also going to be rightly pointed out that as the student ages and student behavior continues to become an issue, it's not as if there's a decline in male figures both at the instructional level and at the administrative level (in fact, the opposite is true, even if a systemic dearth of male professionals is found). Thus, there is rightly going to be a great deal of caution there in making some sort of conclusion that the rising tide of student misbehavior is to be blamed on gender dynamics of instructor/administrator and student. But there is nevertheless something to it. There's also an occasional realization on the behalf of professionals attempting to hire teachers about the need for male role models in the schools due to the dearth of them at all levels and in most subject matters. I can personally speak to that one. Especially for those students who have behavior issues, there's kind of this side dialogue about the fact that there is a gender component not being addressed: that male students will respond better to a male authority figure who can both keep them in line as well as guide them. It's both an emotional comfort thing for the student as well as for some reason or another a difficulty for female authority figures to do correctly. Even in professional settings with other professionals, it does impact the dialogue that is had about education and human service matters. Not night and day sort of things by any means, but it's certainly there.

    Now, is this going to explain the vast swaths of male students performing academically worse and achieving less in adulthood? No, not really. I thought the most prominent cases for making the argument that the gender component could explain that much of a gap in the past few decades was an exaggeration. I have no real confidence that if the field was suddenly 47-50% male, we would significantly start to see increases of male performance and post-secondary accomplishments. There's a lot more at work. What, I cannot yet say or completely conjecture. Nevertheless, it's not sheer fiction either.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-18-15 at 09:38 PM.
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  10. #130
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    Re: Are "Suburban American Women" Conservative or Liberal Voters?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    What is your obsession with this topic, dude? How many threads have you made about this? 3 or 4 now?

    As has been shown to you numerous times, American women in all demographics lean Democrat.
    Not entirely true.

    White American women tend to lean towards the right.

    However, the gap is small, and could be closed with the right nominee.

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