View Poll Results: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

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  • I'm a non-Catholic Christian -- yes

    1 6.67%
  • I'm a non-Catholic Christian -- no

    10 66.67%
  • I'm Catholic -- yes

    0 0%
  • I'm Catholic -- no

    1 6.67%
  • Oh my god, they killed John! Those BASTARDS!!!

    3 20.00%
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Thread: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

  1. #21
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Other trends are:

    • anti-vaccination
    • evolution denial
    • heavy drug use
    • Islamic extremism
    • Truther-ism
    • Birther-ism



    Which goes to show: uneducated people believe in (and do) a lot of stupid crap. It's good when the head of any faith does his/her part to address ignorance. Now, sure, atheists will probably jump up my ass at the irony of the head of religion addressing ignorance, but you can't win every battle.



    I am neither uneducated nor ignorant. I do not merely parrot things; I study them. I have reasons for what I believe.

    Yet I am skeptical of AGW-as-a-man-made-existential-disaster, and doubly skeptical that there is really anything much we can do about it.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #22
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I am neither uneducated nor ignorant. I do not merely parrot things; I study them. I have reasons for what I believe.

    Yet I am skeptical of AGW-as-a-man-made-existential-disaster, and doubly skeptical that there is really anything much we can do about it.
    I assumed as you were an ex-LEO that it would be mutually exclusive for you to also be a scientist working in the field of climatology. Perhaps I've made an ass out of u and me. Which scientific field do you work in?

  3. #23
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I assumed as you were an ex-LEO that it would be mutually exclusive for you to also be a scientist working in the field of climatology. Perhaps I've made an ass out of u and me. Which scientific field do you work in?

    Aha. I'm just a dumb cop right? WTF do I know.


    Prejudice much? Do you often resort to "Neener neener, you're a stupidhead" when confronted with opposing viewpoints? How very enlightened of you.


    So, only scientists working in the field of climatology are allowed to have viewpoints on AGW?


    Ok then....



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming


    David Bellamy, botanist.[14][15][16][17]
    Judith Curry, Professor and former chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.[18][19][20][21]
    Freeman Dyson, professor emeritus of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society [22][23]
    Steven E. Koonin, theoretical physicist and director of the Center for Urban Science and Progress at New York University[24][25]
    Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan emeritus professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences[26][27][28][29]
    Craig Loehle, ecologist and chief scientist at the National Council for Air and Stream Improvement.[30][31][32][33][34][35]
    Nils-Axel Mörner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics Department at Stockholm University, former chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003)[36][37]
    Garth Paltridge, retired chief research scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre, visiting fellow Australian National University[38][39]
    Denis Rancourt, former professor of physics at University of Ottawa, research scientist in condensed matter physics, and in environmental and soil science[40][41][42][43]
    Peter Stilbs, professor of physical chemistry at Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm[44][45]
    Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London[46][47]
    Hendrik Tennekes, retired director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute [48][49]
    Anastasios Tsonis, distinguished professor at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee[50][51]
    Fritz Vahrenholt, German politician and energy executive with a doctorate in chemistry[52][53]




    NASA Scientists Against AGW | The SPPI Blog


    In an unprecedented slap at NASA’s endorsement of global warming science, nearly 50 former astronauts and scientists–including the ex-boss of the Johnson Space Center–claim the agency is on the wrong side of science and must change course or ruin the reputation of the world’s top space agency
    .



    Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis - Forbes

    Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. By contrast, a strong majority of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.

    The survey results show geoscientists (also known as earth scientists) and engineers hold similar views as meteorologists. Two recent surveys of meteorologists (summarized here and here) revealed similar skepticism of alarmist global warming claims.


    Well if I am the ignorant and uneducated wretch you wish to portray me as, at least I appear to be in good company.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #24
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    My guess is that people in general know about the Pope and Catholicism, the nature of encyclicals and their purpose about as much as they know about the Environment and Global Warming. Which is to say they know little to nothing.

    That being said, I don't believe the Pope's encyclical will sway me much at all. Not that there isn't much in it I agree with along with much that will make me ponder but that I already have a firm opinion on the subject.

    To say man doesn't cause harm to the environment is simply asinine. Just as equally asinine is to say that their aren't people who have politicized and monetized the issue for personal gain.

    Put plainly -- Science can be bought.

    It is neither infallible nor untouchable. Monsanto, if anyone had taught us this.

    Does that mean that we're all gonna burn up from a depleted ozone, be poisoned from acidic rains, or drown in a tsunami of melted arctic ice caps?

    No. Stop being silly.

    Does that mean that pumping toxins into our land, air and sea is a "good thing"?

    No.

    Has our bountiful harvest made us apathetic to the means in which said harvest was planted or sown? I do believe so.

    How many people here recycle?

    If you do, then you surely know what I'm going to say as the Truth.

    I throw away 3 large bags of recyclables for every half bag of refuse.

    The paper, plastic, wrappings, ribbons, tape, adhesives, et al. and all that go into making them is appalling by any measure and we should all be ashamed.

    The chickens, cows, and pigs we eat? How they're raised, how they're slaughtered, how they're brought to us? Disgusting.

    The pesticides we use, contaminating our soil and water.

    This whole "fracking" nonsense, the oil spills that the paltry fines imposed don't begin to make up for...

    All of it. But people just don't give a damn. So long as they get more and more for less and less.

    This encyclical -- while I haven't read it -- isn't about the science behind one side of this issue or the other. This encyclical is about us, what we do, what we find acceptable and shouldn't, how we relate to the world and all of creation around us. It's about the Church's position on how we should view things. How we should harmonize ourselves with nature rather than constantly thinking we should subdue it for our own, selfish, thoughtless wants and desires.

    So while it undoubtedly will not sway people's opinions on politicized science, it should be read so that perhaps in can hold sway over your conscience.
    "Whoever lays his hand on me to govern me is an usurper and tyrant, and I declare him my enemy." -- Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

  5. #25
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    I cannot vote, I am an atheist and I think for a lot of people the lines have been drawn along ideological lines and they are unwilling to even contemplate anything outside of their own doctrine.
    #StayStrongAppie

  6. #26
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Aha. I'm just a dumb cop right? WTF do I know.


    Prejudice much? Do you often resort to "Neener neener, you're a stupidhead" when confronted with opposing viewpoints? How very enlightened of you.
    Well if you're dumb then I'm dumb, because last I heard most any scientific field requires more academic background than the ability to paint a pretty portrait.


    So, only scientists working in the field of climatology are allowed to have viewpoints on AGW?
    No, non-climatologists are allowed to have viewpoints, but those viewpoints just won't carry very much weight.

    Very good. In a might display of Google you were able to scour the vast reaches of the internet and find people who agree with you. Now let me ask you this: as you and I are both non-scientists, what logical reason do you have to take the word of 3% of the world's scientists over 97% of the other scientists who accept AGW?

  7. #27
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well if you're dumb then I'm dumb, because last I heard most any scientific field requires more academic background than the ability to paint a pretty portrait.




    No, non-climatologists are allowed to have viewpoints, they just won't carry very much weight.



    Very good. In a might display of Google you were able to scour the vast reaches of the internet and find people who agree with you. Now let me ask you this: as you and I are both non-scientists, what logical reason do you have to take the word of 3% of the world's scientists over 97% of the other scientists who accept AGW?


    In part because the 97/3 claim appears to be bogus, which if you'd read my links you would have seen.

    Hey... we could play "battle of the internet links and studies" for hours. We'd get nowhere... it rarely ever does.

    There are a certain number of scientists and a certain body of work supporting AGW, who claim to be a majority and a "consensus".


    Then there's a body of work and a certain number of scientists who are skeptical of AGW, and studies showing THEY are actually the majority.


    so what do you and I do?

    Well I examined the available information and sampled various viewpoints and chose a position... as did you.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  8. #28
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Other trends are:

    • anti-vaccination
    • evolution denial
    • heavy drug use
    • Islamic extremism
    • Truther-ism
    • Birther-ism



    Which goes to show: uneducated people believe in (and do) a lot of stupid crap. It's good when the head of any faith does his/her part to address ignorance. Now, sure, atheists will probably jump up my ass at the irony of the head of religion addressing ignorance, but you can't win every battle.
    I guess you need to warn Princeton University they're keeping bad company. One of the world's leading AGW skeptics was recently appointed to their Institute for Advanced Studies.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #29
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In part because the 97/3 claim appears to be bogus, which if you'd read my links you would have seen.

    Hey... we could play "battle of the internet links and studies" for hours. We'd get nowhere... it rarely ever does.

    There are a certain number of scientists and a certain body of work supporting AGW, who claim to be a majority and a "consensus".


    Then there's a body of work and a certain number of scientists who are skeptical of AGW, and studies showing THEY are actually the majority.


    so what do you and I do?
    So your response is to split hairs on the 97/3 figure? Goshin, even if the real number is "only" 80%, that still constitutes an overwhelming majority. If we were to wage a battle of the links citing actual scientific articles and not blogs by non-scientists, your sources would be so crushed under the weight of my sources that yours would be compressed into a diamond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well I examined the available information and sampled various viewpoints and chose a position... as did you.
    No. You, a person with no scientific background, took the word of 3% of scientists that agreed with you and you used their information to support your position.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 06-15-15 at 08:56 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Will the Pope's encyclical affect your position on global warming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I guess you need to warn Princeton University they're keeping bad company. One of the world's leading AGW skeptics was recently appointed to their Institute for Advanced Studies.
    Congratulations. You, like Goshin, were able to use a search engine to find one scientist out of a crushingly small minority of scientists who agree with your viewpoint.

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