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Would this solve the illegal immigration issue?

Would this solve the illegal immigration issue?

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
SlevinKelevra said:
yes, no, maybe

Make it a capital crime to employ undocumented workers/ immigrants.

:shock:
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The question is absurd, but what the hell...

No, it would not. In your paradise-like example there would still be other incentives. "Anchor babies", education, etc. A crappy day in America would still be better than a crappy day in their home country, for many of them.
 
The question is phrased rather poorly, because "is it a good idea?" is a whole lot different than "will it solve illegal immigration?"

Businesses choosing to hire illegal labor, which they in turn exploit and pay lower wages than American workers, is obviously an unethical practice that should be prohibited, as long as businesses receive the punishment, not immigrants who are desperate for a paycheck.

Will it solve the issue of illegal immigration? That depends on what "solving the issue" looks like. I don't think you can ever completely prevent illegal immigration, and any attempts to do so would result in racial profiling and would generally bring about more harm than good. Punishing the act of hiring illegal immigrants needs to be accompanied by a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and this action by itself will only solve a part of the problem.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Nope.

#1 that is excessive

#2 the super cheap labor is real tempting, too tempting for many AS IT SHOULD BE

#3 let capitalism do its thing. If these guys outsource Americans in certain low skilled work jobs then whatever we should hire their ****ing asses
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Capitalism does not effectively work in this scenerio. Everyone involved is not on an even playing field.

A person paying taxes needs to earn around 35% more in terms of take home wages to be equal with someone not paying taxes.

There is also the aspect of the strength of the dollar on a global scale. Many illegals come here and send their money home. They work here long until they have enough to return home and live very well off where as a us citizen does not have that advantage.
 
gdgyva said:
old cases, new science

and a few errors when you have a human factor is normal

the system will NEVER be perfect.....

it just has to be close enough
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Do you have any moral objection to making it a person's job to kill people?
 
trouble13 said:
Do you have any moral objection to making it a person's job to kill people?
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no...

as part of one's duty while in the military, it is known you may be required to go into combat

part of the job

now if you are asking would i FORCE someone to become an executioner.....no

there are enough volunteers for the extra pay
 
SlevinKelevra said:
Was a tongue in cheek comment based on the fact the issue still hasn't been resolved politically in the USA.

Ignore the constitutionality.
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No, I don't think I will.

Imagine if that WERE the law.

Would the problem disappear?
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Nope.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
Punishing the act of hiring illegal immigrants needs to be accompanied by a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and this action by itself will only solve a part of the problem.
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Not just no. Hell no!

This is unacceptable on at least two fronts.

  1. It rewards criminals for being criminals.
  2. It unfairly penalizes those who go about seeking residency and citizenship through proper legal means.

Only one who is unabashedly on the side of criminals and against that of honest people could support this.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Not just no. Hell no!

This is unacceptable on at least two fronts.

  1. It rewards criminals for being criminals.
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  1. Not all crimes are equal. Just because someone violated a law and came to the United States improperly doesn't mean that you can stand on a moral high ground and declare that we should not reward criminals when a clear and imminent problem exists.

    [*]It unfairly penalizes those who go about seeking residency and citizenship through proper legal means.
    Click to expand...
Only one who is unabashedly on the side of criminals and against that of honest people could support this.
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Legal immigration should be much easier in the first place. The issue of illegal immigrants needs to be addressed because millions of them already live in the country and sending them to the back of the line will only lengthen the problem.
 
gdgyva said:
no...

as part of one's duty while in the military, it is known you may be required to go into combat

part of the job

now if you are asking would i FORCE someone to become an executioner.....no

there are enough volunteers for the extra pay
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That's fair enough. I personally oppose the death penalty based on my own moral objection to killing someone but I respect where you are coming from. I don't think your position is unfair just be dam sure you are executing the right person if you feel that's what must be done.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
Not all crimes are equal. Just because someone violated a law and came to the United States improperly doesn't mean that you can stand on a moral high ground and declare that we should not reward criminals when a clear and imminent problem exists.

Legal immigration should be much easier in the first place. The issue of illegal immigrants needs to be addressed because millions of them already live in the country and sending them to the back of the line will only lengthen the problem.
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Again, there is no spin you can put on what you have just written to hide what it reveals, that you treasonously favor the interests of invading foreign criminals against those of the citizens and legal residents of this nation.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Again, there is no spin you can put on what you have just written to hide what it reveals, that you treasonously favor the interests of invading foreign criminals against those of the citizens and legal residents of this nation.
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If you're not going to address my post there's really no point.
 
If it were strictly enforced, then of course it would. People aren't going to risk their lives to get their fruit picked slightly cheaper.

But that kind of solution is ridiculously impractical, and ridiculously overkill. Like using a bunker buster to get rid of an anthill.
 
Cephus said:
So what might be your suggestion?
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Treat them the same way we do mobsters,drug dealers and other criminals who profit from illegal activies.
Make those who hire illegals subject to prison time, a diff fine $100,000 fine per illegal and subject to asset seizure and forfeiture laws after a guilty conviction.

I think a stiff fine, like $10,000 per offense, is fine.
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People use illegal labor in order to pay substandard wages.A $10,000 fine would pay for itself in a year or two when hiring illegals.

Then, of course, you need to have a means to find it and enforce it, I think that, just like having the fire department walk businesses once a year, you ought to be able to have ICE walk in any time they want and check your employee files for employees without legal documentation. Those that have irregularities get checked more often. Those fines pay for the inspections and let's be honest, companies aren't going to have just one illegal employee, they're going to have multiples and it might put the smaller companies out of business the first time they're caught. So be it. It will put lots of companies out of business the second time and by the third, clearly they just don't care and they're going away regardless.
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That is a good idea.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
What is there to address?

All you're doing is arguing for the “right” of foreign criminals to invade our country,
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You really enjoy antagonizing undocumented immigrants, don't you? To clarify, you would not feel this way if they immigrated legally, correct?

and depicting it as a “problem” if we get rid of them.
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Well the existence of 12 million undocumented people within our borders obviously is a problem. What does "get rid of them" mean, deporting them, because deportation of 12 million people has no basis in reality.
 
SlevinKelevra said:
yes, no, maybe


Make it a capital crime to employ undocumented workers/ immigrants.

:shock:
Click to expand...
I like the idea, let it roll, problem is Cons are too stupid to figure out that as long as America has an addiction to cheap labor, due to their own greed, and a obsession for street drugs, you will have more and more Hispanics trying to com over here..

I would much rather have Hispanics in my community , than White toxic racist Hitler wannabes, at least I won't have to worry about a Mexican killing innocent elderly folks in the local church, or blowing up a federal building In an act of terrorism, McVeigh style, or bombing the town abortion clinic..

Keep on coming!!!
 
SocialDemocrat said:
You really enjoy antagonizing undocumented immigrants, don't you? To clarify, you would not feel this way if they immigrated legally, correct?.
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How many immigrants should we allow into our country legally each year? Should it be a million, two million or ten million a year?


Well the existence of 12 million undocumented people within our borders obviously is a problem. What does "get rid of them" mean, deporting them, because deportation of 12 million people has no basis in reality.
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Massive deportations have been done in the past and they were successful. Operation Wetback and Mexican Mexican Repatriation. But you don't actually need to deport 12 to 20 million illegals. These simple things will encourage illegals to leave on their own.


1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities. That means prison time, severe fines, and subject them to asset seizure and forfeiture.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities
​

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer. And as a condition of getting a business license the employer will be subject to once or twice a year random unannounced inspections by ICE.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.
 
jamesrage said:
How many immigrants should we allow into our country legally each year? Should it be a million, two million or ten million a year?
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Perhaps a number slightly higher than the 675,000 that we currently accept, although refugees should be exempted from that number and we should be accepted as many refugees as possible.

Massive deportations have been done in the past and they were successful. Operation Wetback and Mexican Mexican Repatriation. But you don't actually need to deport 12 to 20 million illegals. These simple things will encourage illegals to leave on their own.


1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities. That means prison time, severe fines, and subject them to asset seizure and forfeiture.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities
​

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer. And as a condition of getting a business license the employer will be subject to once or twice a year random unannounced inspections by ICE.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.
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So basically try to make conditions for immigrants worse than the place from which they arrived? Sounds like a very inhumane solution, IMO, and there's no guarantee that even that will cause people to return to the hellholes they came from; a more likely result is creating a permanent underclass without access to public services.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
Perhaps a number slightly higher than the 675,000 that we currently accept,
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So somewhere around close to a million?

although refugees should be exempted from that number and we should be accepted as many refugees as possible.
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What constitutes a refugee? People being persecuted and exterminated in a country that is at war. Or people in central and south American countries that pro-illegals in office are trying to get labeled as refugees?

Obama Approves Refugee Plan for Central American Children

So basically try to make conditions for immigrants worse than the place from which they arrived? Sounds like a very inhumane solution, IMO, and there's no guarantee that even that will cause people to return to the hellholes they came from; a more likely result is creating a permanent underclass without access to public services.
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People who come here illegally come here for jobs, education and other benefits for themselves and their kids.If you remove those incentives for them then you remove their reasons to come and stay here. They are here illegally they should not be able to get services of any kind.
 
jamesrage said:
So somewhere around close to a million?
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Probably more around like 800,000, but I'm going to tell you right now that I haven't thought in extensive detail what the exact number should be.

What constitutes a refugee? People being persecuted and exterminated in a country that is at war. Or people in central and south American countries that pro-illegals in office are trying to get labeled as refugees?

Obama Approves Refugee Plan for Central American Children
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Obama cited increased gang violence and rape as a reason for increased illegal child immigration, which has risen by 90% recently according to another Time article linked in the one you provided. I think it's pretty clear that Central America has some issues of intense violence right now, and a country doesn't have to be officially at war for that to occur. If these children were displaced by extreme gang violence in their home countries that motivated mass emigration, it seems reasonable to include them within the definition of refugee.

People who come here illegally come here for jobs, education and other benefits for themselves and their kids.If you remove those incentives for them then you remove their reasons to come and stay here. They are here illegally they should not be able to get services of any kind.
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Maybe people won't choose to come here if we treat them so abusively, but that won't simply get rid of people who currently live here. Firstly, conditions where they came from are so dire, that they are not going to return as long as the area is unstable. That's why they chose to immigrate illegally in the first place: they are desperate for a better life. Secondly, should they decide to leave, how are they going to even get to the border if you've removed their ability to obtain a driver's license?
 
shrubnose said:
Not going to happen in the USA.

Wait and see.

This wouldn't be proposed by any member of Congress.

On the left or right.
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:doh Your reply is nonsensical.
He never said it would be proposed.
He asked if it would solve the issue. It is a hypothetical.
Did you really not understand that?

There is no waiting to "see" anything.
 
SlevinKelevra said:
Was a tongue in cheek comment based on the fact the issue still hasn't been resolved politically in the USA.
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Ignore the constitutionality.

Imagine if that WERE the law.

Would the problem disappear?
Click to expand...

The gun violence problem in the USA will be solved eventually.

But not by people like you, who don't take it seriously.
 
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