View Poll Results: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

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  • If it's cheaper to the taxpayer, I would support providing apartments for the homeless.

    29 65.91%
  • I would not support providing apartments to the homeless even if it is cheaper to the taxpayer.

    15 34.09%
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Thread: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post

    We've tried your idea. Have you ever seen a housing project?
    Darling, for a part of my youth I grew up in a decent one. I grew up in the UK where they're called council estates. Some of them are scummy and some of them very decent places to live. If the governing local authority invests enough in them, and they're houses/apartments of a decent standard with green spaces, play areas, commerces, facilities, youth clubs etc. where people can live their lives with dignity, then guess what? People respect their environment as much as any owner-occupiers. I had a decent life in that public housing complex.

    I now live in France - some local authorities don't invest in their public housing estates and they're $hit places to live - like the places where riots broke out a few years back. Others do invest - and those estates stayed riot free. It was essentially about poverty, not race or Islam as Fox News tried to portray. I live in a very progressive Parisian suburb where there is much decent public housing. The whole town has areas that are mixed public/private housing and quite frankly, it can be hard to tell which apartment complexes are public housing and which aren't. Low income families have decent apartments - what's so awful about that?

    Of course, if you stick people in US style ghettos and limit their life chances, they're not going to be nice places to live.
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Don't know if it would be cheaper, but it would be much more humane, than letting them be on the street.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Darling, for a part of my youth I grew up in a decent one. I grew up in the UK where they're called council estates. Some of them are scummy and some of them very decent places to live. If the governing local authority invests enough in them, and they're houses/apartments of a decent standard with green spaces, play areas, commerces, facilities, youth clubs etc. where people can live their lives with dignity, then guess what? People respect their environment as much as any owner-occupiers. I had a decent life in that public housing complex.

    I now live in France - some local authorities don't invest in their public housing estates and they're $hit places to live - like the places where riots broke out a few years back. Others do invest - and those estates stayed riot free. It was essentially about poverty, not race or Islam as Fox News tried to portray. I live in a very progressive Parisian suburb where there is much decent public housing. The whole town has areas that are mixed public/private housing and quite frankly, it can be hard to tell which apartment complexes are public housing and which aren't. Low income families have decent apartments - what's so awful about that?

    Of course, if you stick people in US style ghettos and limit their life chances, they're not going to be nice places to live.
    Spend enough money? We have been throwing scads of money at this problem for many decades, nothing changes. Most government housing projects start out nice, but they don't stay that way. At least the ones I've seen.

    But I'm glad your experience was a good one.

  4. #54
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Spend enough money? We have been throwing scads of money at this problem for many decades, nothing changes. Most government housing projects start out nice, but they don't stay that way. At least the ones I've seen.
    Then there is an inherent problem in the planning and management. Create vast ghettos where you stick your undesirables out of the way - of course it will fail. Build public housing in areas where people share the same good facilities as their owner-occupier neighbours, where they don't have to be ashamed to say, "I live in X-ville" and you get different outcomes.

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    But I'm glad your experience was a good one.
    Thank you, it was. And believe me, I'm not alone.
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    As a liberal, I don't support this in anyway. It would be an excelant way of trashing apartment complexes.The homeless need to have shelter, but giving them an apartment is not the way to do it. I believe this has been tried before without any success.
    On this one, Pete, I agree with you.

    As they are homeless, what grounds are there that they'd value and / or have the ability to take care of an apartment. Wouldn't it be likely that the apartment in question would soon look like and smell like the streets theyvcame from? No, I think greater supervision is required.
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    It's a global Jihad, stupid. Allowing that poison into the country is only going to increase the damage it inflicts on others.

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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Salt Lake City built apartment buildings for the chronic homeless and the program seems to working for cutting costs and getting them the help they need....


    "...with the traditional approach, the average chronically homeless person used to cost Salt Lake City more than twenty thousand dollars a year. Putting someone into permanent housing costs the state just eight thousand dollars, and that’s after you include the cost of the case managers who work with the formerly homeless to help them adjust. The same is true elsewhere. A Colorado study found that the average homeless person cost the state forty-three thousand dollars a year, while housing that person would cost just seventeen thousand dollars...."

    Give the Homeless Homes - The New Yorker

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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Google and read the studies - they found that providing apartments for the homeless is actually cheaper than it is to pay for the increased police presence, the use of the court system, and the extra prison capacity that comes with having those people on the streets.

    Yes, that's counterintuitive...but one is cheaper than the other. And there's the rub - you do pay. One way or another, you pay anyway. You can pay more for cops and courts and prisons...or you can pay somewhat less for apartments to give them a place where they can take a shower, wash and iron their clothes, and get a job.

    But you pay anyway. Do you want to pay more for the stick...or less for the carrot?
    Not jailing people is always cheaper. Police shooting sed offenders instead of arresting them is cheaper, should we do that too?

    Principle sometimes costs money.

    I'm willing to give homeless people housing but it won't be free, it will be a structured existence like military recruit training and doing hard physical labor like pulling scotch broom from clearcuts in the national forest.

    Ill gladly pay taxes to make them better themselves, I will even support feeding them steak, they'll need to protein for the work I have in mind, but I will not pay another nickel so they can sit in a pad and smoke pot. Seriously I work in seattle and would love to live closer to work, I make over twice the minimum wage and I can't afford to live in the city, where's my free pad? I actually contribute to society
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 06-08-15 at 11:47 PM.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Salt Lake City built apartment buildings for the chronic homeless and the program seems to working for cutting costs and getting them the help they need....


    "...with the traditional approach, the average chronically homeless person used to cost Salt Lake City more than twenty thousand dollars a year. Putting someone into permanent housing costs the state just eight thousand dollars, and that’s after you include the cost of the case managers who work with the formerly homeless to help them adjust. The same is true elsewhere. A Colorado study found that the average homeless person cost the state forty-three thousand dollars a year, while housing that person would cost just seventeen thousand dollars...."

    Give the Homeless Homes - The New Yorker
    Ok can you link the budget numbers that say SLC and Colorado cut social services or law enforcement budgets after this program was started?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    why do you HAVE a kid before you've got at LEAST 1/4 million $ safely invested, hmm? Cause you're STUPID, arrogant, selfish, hypocritical and just generally a sorry sack of it who has no problem pointing govt guns at other people, to pay for the raising of kids that you had no biz having.

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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by prison/con.net View Post
    why do you HAVE a kid before you've got at LEAST 1/4 million $ safely invested, hmm? Cause you're STUPID, arrogant, selfish, hypocritical and just generally a sorry sack of it who has no problem pointing govt guns at other people, to pay for the raising of kids that you had no biz having.
    Harsh.

    If everyone in this country waited until they had a quarter of a mil invested, the population would die out pretty quickly. That's a lot of money for people just starting out, and that's when most of the women are having children.
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