View Poll Results: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

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  • If it's cheaper to the taxpayer, I would support providing apartments for the homeless.

    29 65.91%
  • I would not support providing apartments to the homeless even if it is cheaper to the taxpayer.

    15 34.09%
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Thread: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

  1. #161
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    so? the population needs to be reduced by 90%. If we horsehipped them instead of wasting $ on jail space, it would cost much less, and they'd pay a LOT more attention to the rules.

  2. #162
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And guess what, guy - with all the thousands of "Christian" churches in America, we still have a severe homelessness problem. Even in the deepest parts of the Bible Belt where I come from, there's still lots of homeless.

    Sorry, but charity only goes so far. It's nice to think that charity can solve it...but in real life, no. Never has, not in all human history.
    Since when has government solved any problem completely? What makes you think it will be different in this case?

  3. #163
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    So many different perspectives. "Cheaper" is relative. If done right it is certainly more cost effective in the long run but also much more effectvie for the individuals. That SHOULD be the goal.
    Utah's chronic homeless numbers drop from 1,932 to 178 in 10 years | The Salt Lake Tribune

    If you want to talk just $$$, then look at the case of Million Dollar Murray. Its cost MILLIONS of dollars to do nothing and in the end, the man died, and society just ended up with another body to bury and bill to pay.
    Million-Dollar Murray

    A program that JUST keeps people tucked into a room somewhere cheaper isnt very effective or humane. A program that helps people get their feet under them, make new beginnings, and maybe even change their future for the better and be productive members of society...thats well worth it.

  4. #164
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    You didn't answer my question about why you feel the need to make idiotic blanket statements besmirching all Christians.
    He said neither I nor he was obligated to help anyone, which is true - not in any legal sense. He also said it wasn't government's role to provide any help. So if people aren't morally or ethically obligated (he says no) and government shouldn't help, then what is the other option except be fine with them rotting in the streets? I didn't see another option. If we as individuals turn our heads, and government does, how do these people get help?

    And that's beside the point. I was "besmirching" one comment by a person who made claims about Christianity and Christian morality and appropriate behavior and who apparently (he later said) isn't a Christian. Or, to put it another way, I was mocking his statement about the "Christian" thing to do. As I said, I volunteer my time and money for a Christian charity. I donate money to other faith based (in my area that means Christian) charities. I don't believe his views represent 'the' Christian view at all and it absolutely do not represent mine.

  5. #165
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Valid point about representation, butut we are taxed enough already. What's wrong with people deciding for themselves?
    I'll point back to representation. We are taxed the amount those we as a community decide to tax us.

    And I wish people would decide for themselves to fund programs adequate to serve this population. In my area, that has not happened. Again, 100s on the waiting list, could be longer.... So WHEN voluntary charity fails, then what? I'm just answering a practical question with an IMO practical answer - public services provide some of the help.

  6. #166
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Since when has government solved any problem completely? What makes you think it will be different in this case?
    Never, but "completely" is an unrealistic burden. When has private charity solved any problem completely? Also never.

  7. #167
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So many different perspectives. "Cheaper" is relative. If done right it is certainly more cost effective in the long run but also much more effectvie for the individuals. That SHOULD be the goal.
    Utah's chronic homeless numbers drop from 1,932 to 178 in 10 years | The Salt Lake Tribune

    If you want to talk just $$$, then look at the case of Million Dollar Murray. Its cost MILLIONS of dollars to do nothing and in the end, the man died, and society just ended up with another body to bury and bill to pay.
    Million-Dollar Murray

    A program that JUST keeps people tucked into a room somewhere cheaper isnt very effective or humane. A program that helps people get their feet under them, make new beginnings, and maybe even change their future for the better and be productive members of society...thats well worth it.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I was troubled by the direction of the conversation - reducing problems involving human beings to dollars because there is always a cheaper, and horrifically cruel way to deal with any problem involving people with no power.

  8. #168
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll point back to representation. We are taxed the amount those we as a community decide to tax us.

    And I wish people would decide for themselves to fund programs adequate to serve this population. In my area, that has not happened. Again, 100s on the waiting list, could be longer.... So WHEN voluntary charity fails, then what? I'm just answering a practical question with an IMO practical answer - public services provide some of the help.
    So how is that any different than you being forced to pay for wars, or a military you disagree with (other than one is constitutional)?

  9. #169
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If it is shown that it costs less in taxpayer dollars to provide apartments for the homeless than it would be to just let them remain homeless in the streets, would you support using taxpayer dollars to pay for apartments for the homeless?

    Why or why not?
    If it's actually cheaper then yes but I wouldn't trust the numbers because liberals will skew them to fit their agenda of wealth redistribution and so I would probably vote against it unless the study were done by some group I trust

  10. #170
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    Re: Is is cheaper for the taxpayer to provide apartments for the homeless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If it's actually cheaper then yes but I wouldn't trust the numbers because liberals will skew them to fit their agenda of wealth redistribution and so I would probably vote against it unless the study were done by some group I trust
    I finally looked at the article. It claims that government spends twenty grand for every homeless person because they give them temporary housing, medical care, psychiatric care and drug treatment. This may be true for homeless who participate in the system and use the government for services. The majority of homeless avoid the government preferring to sleep under bridges, in camps and in doorways in down town areas. If you compare the cost of apartmented homeless in Utah against those who use the system, I'd guess apartments may be cheaper. If you compare the cost of apartmented homeless to the costs incurred by all the homeless in Utah regardless of participation or avoidance of government programs, my guess is that apartments are not cheaper.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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