View Poll Results: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

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  • Yes, we screwed it up, and we're going to pay a heavy price)

    28 45.90%
  • They asked for it!

    0 0%
  • It wasn't just us, we had help.

    14 22.95%
  • No, it would have come to this point even without our involvement.

    10 16.39%
  • Other.

    9 14.75%
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Thread: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?[W:51***]

  1. #71
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?[W:51***]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    I think we have, and for decades to come. For good or for bad, and as imperfect as it was, it was somewhat stable. Now, it's chaos.

    Discuss.
    Breathtaking self-importance. Your fear that we screwed it up is as delusional as was GWB's dream that we could democratize it.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #72
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I want to know your evidence for the assertion that "most historians" think it was a mistake. This was a bold claim. Do you have any evidence?
    These are just 4 of countless examples. I shouldn't have to waste more time explaining the obvious & treacherous folly of betrayal, lying & dispossession of Native populations to anyone.


    “The Balfour Declaration And its Consequences”
    The Balfour Declaration
    EXCERPT “Thus, by a stroke of the imperial pen, the Promised Land became twice-promised.
    “Measured by British interests alone,” argued Monroe, “it is one of the greatest mistakes in our imperial history.”[2]CONTINUED


    “Contradictory Promises, by Peter A Shambrook”
    EXCERPT “A forthright acknowledgement of mistakes made nearly one hundred years ago, by the British government between 2014 and 2018, would be a healthy step forward towards more harmonious relations with that important region of the world.” CONTINUED


    Britain's Balfour Declaration of 1917, by Robert John
    Britain's Balfour Declaration of 1917, by Robert John - $0.00 : The Barnes Review, Home of the TBR Bookclub
    EXCERPT “the Balfour Declaration was one of the greatest mistakes in our imperial history.” CONTINUED



    "The Balfour Declaration: The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict"
    ...http://www.amazon.com/The-Balfour-De...0065321‎
    *EXCERPT “Makes one understand why it precipitated a terrible mistake on people.”CONTINUED


    Now, will you finally state your point?

  3. #73
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Radical Islamic Terrorist pieces of **** screwed up the Middle East.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  4. #74
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    the US (and the west in general) has had absolutely zero interest in the long term stability in the M.E. or the wellbeing of its people.
    That's a sick belief, Unabomber/whacko level material that denies empathy in humans. How someone becomes so disconnected from one's fellow man as to believe such is, gratefully, beyond me. One can only hold such a perspective from a dark and terrifying hole, and I feel pity.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-11-15 at 08:22 PM.

  5. #75
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Sovereignty belongs to the people and not a tyrant. Where tyrants rule, the people are not sovereign. Protecting the sovereignty of a tyrant that has taken sovereignty from the people is intellectually pathetic garbage.
    so they should be ruled by us approved candidates, and the us military? Iraq has proven incapable of self-government. They can't even defend their 2nd biggest city against a few thousand insurgents.

    As to people having influence over government, often times they don't know what's good for them, or tyranny of the majority rules and some minority gets trampled on. People are never united to be able to act in strictly mutually beneficial ways

  6. #76
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    so they should be ruled by us approved candidates, and the us military? Iraq has proven incapable of self-government. They can't even defend their 2nd biggest city against a few thousand insurgents.
    The people of Iraq have been the victims of genocide, institutionalized rape, mass killings and other atrocities of a madman for generations. A society so debilitated in regard to physical, intellectual and social capital cannot be expected to simply "rise up" in a generation.

    As to people having influence over government, often times they don't know what's good for them, or tyranny of the majority rules and some minority gets trampled on. People are never united to be able to act in strictly mutually beneficial ways
    In the case of Iraq, it was not simply a "minority" that was trampled. Saddam obliterated social capital across the board and left the people staggering in the dark. His damage will require generations to overcome.


    It's embarrassingly naive to believe such debilitated people can simply overthrow such a tyrant, or that they can recover in just a few years.

  7. #77
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    The Middle East is not the Holy Land but the Devils Play Ground. There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as 2 or more people live there. Cane killed Able and the killing hasn't stopped in recorded history. Even God has been unsuccessful in straightening that hell hole out. He flooded the earth, destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah, and even sent his son down to try to help out. They nailed him to a cross. It is hopeless and nothing we do or not do will help those people or stop the insanity that is the Middle East.

    From the movie Aliens.
    I say we nuke it from space and kill every last person there. It is the only way to be sure.

  8. #78
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The people of Iraq have been the victims of genocide, institutionalized rape, mass killings and other atrocities of a madman for generations. A society so debilitated in regard to physical, intellectual and social capital cannot be expected to simply "rise up" in a generation.

    In the case of Iraq, it was not simply a "minority" that was trampled. Saddam obliterated social capital across the board and left the people staggering in the dark. His damage will require generations to overcome.


    It's embarrassingly naive to believe such debilitated people can simply overthrow a such tyrant.
    The actions of one autocratic ruler cannot reflect on every reign by a monarch or unelected governing body, just like george bush II's reign doesn't mean every president ever was a moron.

    As to iraqi well-being, most estimates i've seen put civilian casualties due to the american invasion at 100,000. That doesn't sound much better than hussein's rule

    It won't be overcome because they are in many ways not interested. That region has never cared about things like 'democracy' nor about equality. They will still carry out executions for daring to offend islam and keep women and gays subservient and so on, because *that's how their culture is*. A lot of the oppression existed well before hussein too

  9. #79
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The actions of one autocratic ruler cannot reflect on every reign by a monarch or unelected governing body, just like george bush II's reign doesn't mean every president ever was a moron.
    Your lack of respect for the office of US president is reflected in your outlandish assessment of US actions.

    It won't be overcome because they are in many ways not interested.
    That you claim a people are incapable of governing themselves belays a disgusting hate for others. Your belief is like that of colonialists, 100 years late and thus without excuse.

  10. #80
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Your lack of respect for the office of US president is reflected in your outlandish assessment of US actions.
    I was born after politics had rendered the office incapable of accomplishing much of value. No one my age respects the presidency. That's why shows like "veep" have taken over from "west wing." Politicians are a joke to us.

    However, i could be 80 and find the deaths of 100,000 iraqis to not be in the best interest of iraqis.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That you claim a people are incapable of governing themselves belays a disgusting hate for others. Your belief is like that of colonialists, 100 years late and thus without excuse.
    Again, i have only seen the dumbest **** out of voter ballots and elected office in my lifetime. I have a high regard for some people. If voting was restricted to an educated and informed elite, i might be more in favor, but no, i do not think the 1/3 americans who can't identify a single branch of government should be able to vote. They just aren't qualified, and it brings the rest of us down with them.

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