View Poll Results: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

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  • Yes, we screwed it up, and we're going to pay a heavy price)

    28 45.90%
  • They asked for it!

    0 0%
  • It wasn't just us, we had help.

    14 22.95%
  • No, it would have come to this point even without our involvement.

    10 16.39%
  • Other.

    9 14.75%
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Thread: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?[W:51***]

  1. #91
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    It isn't that the U.S. as a nation and her people have an interest in destabilizing the ME, but rather that the Establishment has a vested interest in destabilization in general.

    Crisis creates opportunity; enemies create angst among the masses, which allows them to be manipulated... if these things do not exist on their own, it only makes sense that the Establishment would do everything in their power to create those conditions.

    It is why the Establishment, i.e. the central bankers and blue bloods who control most of our money and institutions installed the communists in Russia and China. It is why, after WW II the U.S. intelligence agencies (which do the bidding of the Establishment) embarked upon Operation Gladio and knowingly facilitated terrorist acts that killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent Europeans. It is why our government, to this day engages in false flag events to rile the masses.

    It is why the dollar is being destabilized, it is why the debt is being run up, etc... there is much more to come.

    It's sad that the vast majority of people can't see how they are being lied to or being manipulated, but the writing is on the wall - all one need do is take their rose colored glasses off and look at things objectively. Given the constant drumbeat of indoctrination and misinformation, that is not likely to ever happen though.
    Another conspiracy theory. Who makes up the "establishment?"

  2. #92
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Removing an evil dictator from power such as Saddam Insane I mean Hussein is always the right answer. Believing we could instill Western ideology on those people was insane as well.

    We may have freed the slaves in this country in the 1860's but 100 years later a look at the race riots in the south tells you change takes centuries not years.

    The answer is always the same, only the people willing to fight and die for freedom and a better life will achieve it. You cannot give it to anyone and when the people lose the desire to fight and die for it they will lose it.

  3. #93
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, I support a rise in gas price. Always have. I'm sure we could find posts from years ago saying such.

    Anyway, that's a far cry from:



    Better check your rhetoric before you appear to be a sociopath projecting. Your complete denial of empathy therein is not much different than calling for nukes; either way, a group of people are deemed subhuman.
    Ok I did employ some hyperbole and there isn't a complete lack of empatht, but I still stand by the statement that western governments have had no qualms in meddling in the affairs of the ME for personal gain whilst practically ignoring the wellbeing of the people out there.

    Of course to a western government the life of their own citizen will be worth more than the life of a foreign one, but when our governments have been valuing the lives of middle eastern citizens far lower than they should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    I was poking fun with my post. However I think the Middle East could easily still be centuries away from peace.
    I'm glad to hear that, although unfortunately for some that's not the case.
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

  4. #94
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    The answer is always the same, only the people willing to fight and die for freedom and a better life will achieve it. You cannot give it to anyone and when the people lose the desire to fight and die for it they will lose it.
    Fighting for it is not always an option. It's not like the American Revolution when peasants had the same weapons as tyrants. If England had modern WMDs, we'd never have stood a chance. Today, such people must be assisted as a matter of moral obligation.

  5. #95
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glowpun View Post
    Another conspiracy theory. Who makes up the "establishment?"
    How do you explain Operation Gladio??

    Western intelligence agencies killing innocent European civilians?? Sound like good "foreign policy" to you??

    Or is this news to you??

  6. #96
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?[W:51***]

    Well, the colonial powers messed up before the US got seriously involved. But I suspect that much of this was going to happen anyway as monarchial autocratic rule falls under modern advances in communication, transportation, science, and assorted global forces. Clash of competing social forces. Europe went through similar problems in the 19th and 20 century and millions died. What would you expect to happen when individuals become more powerful through modern means? When charismatic leaders can convince so many followers that their way is the right way.

  7. #97
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Fighting for it is not always an option. It's not like the American Revolution when peasants had the same weapons as tyrants. If England had modern WMDs, we'd never have stood a chance. Today, such people must be assisted as a matter of moral obligation.
    England was a super power at the start of the revolution and we had no chance of winning. Once France saw we were willing to go the distance they turned the tide in our favor. We clearly had WMDs during the Vietnam war and the USSR had WMDs in the Afghan war and yet neither super power one against two of the poorest countries at the time. While Vietnam and Afghanistan had help it was the willingness of the people to fight and die that allowed them to prevail.

    Just as Rome fell so will we. We will be destroyed from within just as our forefathers predicted. Once we have lost the willingness to fight and die for our rights and freedom a corrupt government will rise up from within and take them away from us.

  8. #98
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    England was a super power at the start of the revolution and we had no chance of winning. Once France saw we were willing to go the distance they turned the tide in our favor. We clearly had WMDs during the Vietnam war and the USSR had WMDs in the Afghan war and yet neither super power one against two of the poorest countries at the time. While Vietnam and Afghanistan had help it was the willingness of the people to fight and die that allowed them to prevail.
    In Vietnam, our hands were tied by the decency expected of a free nation. In Afghan, the Soviets were defeated by US equipment. In neither case do we have an example of a vastly more powerful tyrant subduing a helpless people. Even your example of the American Revolution demonstrates the need for help when a people are put upon by a powerful tyrant.

    But you expect others to go it alone? How does that even make sense given that you acknowledge the need for help?

    Just as Rome fell so will we. We will be destroyed from within just as our forefathers predicted. Once we have lost the willingness to fight and die for our rights and freedom a corrupt government will rise up from within and take them away from us.
    That's Chicken Little crap motivated by a hate of others, and a gross misrepresentation of forefathers' words. I ain't skeered; you can take the fear-mongering elsewhere.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-11-15 at 11:52 PM.

  9. #99
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    I did not say they had to go alone. We were helped by the French, Vietnam had help from USSR and China, and Afghanistan had help from the USA. We removed as evil dictator and one of the largest armies in the world from Iraq. The people did not rise up against Saddam and fight for their freedom. They are not willing to fight and die for their freedom and so they will not attain it. ISSI or some one else will always take their freedom away from them until they are ready and willing to fight for it.
    That is the facts like it or not. A bully can only push around a large group of people if they let him. Thats reality.

  10. #100
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    Re: Have we (the US) screwed up the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    The people did not rise up against Saddam and fight for their freedom.
    Kurds did, genocide to the tune of 200k.

    Marsh Arabs did, genocide to the tune of 50k.

    They are not willing to fight and die for their freedom and so they will not attain it. ISSI or some one else will always take their freedom away from them until they are ready and willing to fight for it.
    Iraq is fighting ISIS.

    That is the facts like it or not. A bully can only push around a large group of people if they let him. Thats reality.
    That's not facts, it's flat-out BS. Learn basic history and current events.

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