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If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  • Would we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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I believe Saddam Hussein needed to be dealt with, he was being very uncooperative with UN weapon inspectors. However we decided to bring far more force and destruction into play than I believe was necessary. I personally believe we should have given him an ultimatum to either cooperate fully and immediately or be taken out. If he continued to be uncooperative we should have gathered intelligence (even if it took months) and made a strategic strike by bomb or a small team of commandos directly on him leaving the rest of the country alone. We should never have moved forces into the country.

Once he was killed and his successor was in place we give the same ultimatum and consequences to them, eventually whomever was in power would comply to UN weapon inspections the way they should.

I believe the Geneva Convention outlawed assassinations. Could be wrong though. I really think there is a rule of engagement on an international level to not take out leaders of country. Could be wrong though lol.
 
The truth is that Kafirs, non Muslims, Infidels, are never the equal of Muslims.

That we Kafirs, et al, are fighting against a deeply held and deeply entrenched religious ideology, culture and tradition.

We would ONLY be able to assume that Middle Eastern Muslims would side with the West, the USA, the Coalition, the Kafirs and our abominable Western idea of Democracy (which doesn't exist in Islam**) through coercion, money and brute force.

And the minute that $, influence and military power was removed (even after 100 years...See the example of Turkey) the region would revert back to it's traditional Islamism.

In short, we could force our will on the people but if ever they were given the uninfluenced and free choice between freedom, Democracy and Liberty such as we know it and love it, vs the comforting restrictions of Islam, the people would overwhelmingly choose Islam.

Why do you think the Iraqi Army fled in the face of ISIS forces?

The Army soldiers KNEW they were fighting on the wrong side.

Just as crooks know they are in the wrong when they are fleeing the police. Just as the Soviets knew Ronald Reagan was right when he called the USSR the "Evil Empire."

In their hearts they know which side is right.

And in the hearts of virtually ALL Middle Easterners they know in their hearts Islam is right and we are wrong.

And with that understanding I don't think we would have or should have invaded such as we did.

Other ways should have been employed.


**

Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

And we all know that equality is a foreign concept in Islam.



Ibid.

You cannot be serious.
 
I'm not the one with the answers to that.

At least not yet.

:lol:

Well you appear to have a one sided view of Muslims.
Or is this just Muslims in the ME
Or does it include the EU and NA.
For one that appears to demonize Muslims, you must have solutions?
 
Well you appear to have a one sided view of Muslims.
Or is this just Muslims in the ME
Or does it include the EU and NA.
For one that appears to demonize Muslims, you must have solutions?

For one who so stubbornly resists reading the informational texts or viewing the informative videos at Political Islam - Islam's ideology about unbelievers, Kafirs you must be insincerely asking me for a solution.

If you go there and still have questions of me, I will consider your request at that point.

Otherwise I accuse you of merely fishing (trolling?) for 'ammo' to use against me. To further your agenda and not to advance your understanding of Islam nor to find a way to prevent non Muslims from being victimized by it.

And facilitating that is not in my plan.
 
Not relevant - hindsight is always 20/20.

Okay. I will grant you that.

So, extrapolate that 20/20 clarity of vision to interpret the current situation or the future or what we should or shouldn't do in the M.E.

Let's see how much we can learn from what we already know.

:2wave:
 
Well, let me think. Iran- We wouldn't have had the ayatollahs running Iran. No hostage crisis. No anti-Americanism there caused by overthrowing their government and installing a US friendly dictator. The alternate Iran probably wouldn't be a covert supporter of Hezbollah, smuggling missiles into Lebanon.

Al Qaeda- From my understanding, the central motivation of the 9/11 attacks was the first war with Iraq and its aftermath, permanently stationing US forces in Saudi Arabia to enforce the southern no-fly zone. According to wahabisism, part of the public school education offered in Saudi Arabia, I suspect strategically included by the Royal family to the keep the peasant population disinterested in materialism so they can enjoy their lives of luxury without compliant, the presence of a non-Islamic military force in Islamic land is an abomination and must be driven out. This was the education Osama bin laden and most of the hijackers were raised with and paid for by Americans at the gas pump.

Iraq- Due to oil's monopoly status over American transportation, we've had to live in marriages of convenience with regimes we normally would have avoided. Iraq was one such relationship. OPEC, the antitrust oil cartel, was formed as a way for dictators to make out like bandits on the backs of the American people. Saddam Hussein broke ranks with them and bailed America out of the energy crisis of the 1970s. It wasn't until his invasion of Kuwait and more importantly, his next planned move, to take over Saudi Arabia, that he fell out of favor with the US. War and then sanctions claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis including many of not mostly children who did not have access to medicine. This created what turned out to be a major motivation for anti-American sentiment in the region as a new form of media emerged, satellite news channels. These Arab news channels made America out to be an evil society who could care less if hundreds of thousands of their children died as long as we got their oil. This turned out to be an inadvertent recruitment tool for terrorism.

In the meantime, we have the technology to add a new form of transportation energy in the form of electric cars. However, there is an entire segment of the population who have been convinced by their favorite talk show host to oppose anything except the oil monopoly if you love America and hate communism.

So yes, if we weren't entangled in the Middle East over oil, I think the jihadists would be as concerned with US as they are Brazil.

Ignorant about Islam.

Apologist for Islam.

No third option.

Which one best describes you?

:2wave:
 
I don't know, but the results of the war demonstrate that the "know your enemy" phrase is an essential part of warfare.

I agree.

And if we'd better understood Islam beforehand, I believe we'd have done things differently or not invade at all.
 
I've wondered about that. Is it for the same reason they fled before the US forces, is it because of sympathy with the enemy, or is it a bit of both?

A bit of both.

I believe they know they are on the wrong side of Islamic doctrine and when confronted by 'righteous Islamic warriors they know they have no legitimacy. They are defending a democratic government. Not approved of by Mohammed. They are fighting FOR the Kafir's interests against the Holy Warriors. Not acceptable in Islam. They are acting as apostates and hypocrites, in support of Kafir ideologies, in league with Infidels who are "occupying" Holy ground, and bringing death to Muslim "innocents" and Mujahideen.

They are judged guilty and the video production preceding the Jordanian pilot roast gives you all the theatrical framework needed to understand what I'm saying here.

He was found guilty and that is the message ISIS wanted to convey to all others who would fight for Jahiliyyah governments.

Jahiliyyah (Arabic: جاهلية‎ ǧāhiliyyah/jāhilīyah "ignorance") is an Islamic concept of "ignorance of divine guidance" or "the state of ignorance of the guidance from God" or "Days of Ignorance" referring to the barbaric condition in which Arabs found themselves in pre-Islamic Arabia (in the non-Islamic sense), i.e. ...
Jahiliyyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JahiliyyahWikipedia



And this is why they flee.

They saw this in their mind's eye.

And imagined it was them being judged, found guilty and being executed for their crimes against Islam.
 
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he never wants them to attack US government naturally..........

Your command of English, though impressive, fails you on this post.

Of course he wants them to attack non Muslim governments!

You must know very little about Islam.

Here. Let's dispense with the fol de rol.

When The Jihad Comes, Whose Side Will You Be On?
Oct 19 2013 | by Bill Warner

27

by Kenneth Roberts, Associate Writer

“My brother and I came to the Prophet and I requested him to take the pledge of allegiance from us for migration. He said, “Migration has passed away with its people.” I asked, “For what will you take the pledge of allegiance from us then?” He (Mohammed) said, “I will take (the pledge) for Islam and JIHAD.” – (Bukhari 4,52,208)

Mohammed says allegiance to Islam includes the political act of jihad. Jihad is holy fighting against the Kafirs; it is the personal duty of every Muslim. If a Muslim does not participate in jihad, he will die a ‘hypocrite’ and burn in hell. Mohammed is the authority on Islam.

Why don’t Muslims denounce the terrorists?

Islam is harsh on ‘hypocrites’ (munafiqoon in Arabic). Munafiqs are ‘moderate Muslims’. They give only lip service to Islam. Mohammed wanted to burn the munafiqs to death in their homes for not participating in prayers or jihad.

Nonetheless, participate or not, they must not hinder jihad by thought, word or deed. Islam’s ‘munafiqs’ sit back and look the other way, while jihadists fight the Kafirs and subdue them. When a munafiq helps Kafirs during jihad, he becomes a traitor to Islam; he is considered to be a Kafir at war with Islam, so jihadists may kill him too.

When jihad comes, a munafiq is not neutral. He is on the side of jihad, rather than on the side of Kafirs. A munafiq is silent when the jihadists knock on their non-Muslim neighbor’s door. The reason for this silence is in the Koran (28.86) ‘never be a supporter of the disbelievers’.

When The Jihad Comes, Whose Side Will You Be On? - Political Islam

Do you know any Muslims?
 
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You must know very little about Islam.

Here. Let's dispense with the fol de rol.
So says the person who has never even read the Koran or talked to a Muslim and instead gets his info from rightwing blogs and Glenn Beck. Your knowledge of Islam is equal to that of a Klansman's knowledge of black people.
 
So says the person who has never even read the Koran or talked to a Muslim and instead gets his info from rightwing blogs and Glenn Beck. Your knowledge of Islam is equal to that of a Klansman's knowledge of black people.

I get it that there are some Muslims who pretend to be just as Westernized as non Muslims.

And maybe some of them actually are.

Good for them.

But that doesn't at all change the nature of Islam.

And for a clue to that you can't rely on the "nice" Muslim you may happen to know.

You must go to THE EXPERT on Islam.

Mohammed.

Everything I say comes to me from someone who has studied Islam painstakingly, just as an Imam might.

Only, instead of a Kafir like me being lied to when trying to learn the truth abnout Islamic doctrine, my source tells me the truth.

And how do I know it is the truth?

Because not once, in the many weeks that I have been reporting the info I have found at Political Islam - Islam's ideology about unbelievers, Kafirs, has anyone ever been able to successfully dispute or dispel anything I have posted.

Not once.

And many have tried.

And you KNOW they would if they could.

And now you are doing your best to discredit me when everyone knows if you could discredit the information I post I would be similarly discredited.

But because what I am posting IS the truth you are left here impotently trying to defend your belief from being revealed to those you would conquer.

That is why Islam has made such inroads in Europe.

Anti-"Hate Speech" laws prevent anyone from telling the truth about Islam lest it be labeled hate speech.

And that gives Muslims an umbrella of protection against Kafirs finding out in the newspapers, magazines, TV, radio and the internet that the goal of Islam is global conquest and the domination of mankind through the use of violent and non violent Jihad.

How many of you know that:
Islam is far more of a political system than a religion.

There is no unmitigated good in Islam for the Kafir non-Muslim).

Islam’s ethical system is dualistic and is not based on the Golden Rule.

Islamic doctrine cannot be reconciled with our concepts of human rights and our Constitution.

The great majority, 96%, of all Islamic doctrine about women subjugates them.

The Sunna (what Mohammed did and said) is more important than the Koran in a Muslim’s daily life.
http://www.politicalislam.com/author/

Oh, and how many times have your friendly Muslims just listed all of the things that the Koran, Sira and Hadith say should be done to you by the conquering Muslims?

How many have even admitted to you that global conquest was the goal of Islam and that all Muslims are required to perform Jihad?

If these friends are so great why wouldn't they warn you or tip you off or keep you apprised of the truth about Islam?

Three guesses as to why they haven't.

We are being duped.
 
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Precisely. So taking out KJU without a backup plan would just be another Iraq in the making.

This would not be necessarily true. The Koreas exist in a completely different social, cultural and historical context. Arabs and Muslims fighting each other is almost natural. The Koreas were for all intents and purposes a pretty united country where sectarian violence and ethnically based political divisions are almost unheard of throughout history. So at most, we'd have a situation more like that of Germany. It would be a country where there would be noticeable differences along the geographical lines of division.
 
So says the person who has never even read the Koran or talked to a Muslim and instead gets his info from rightwing blogs and Glenn Beck. Your knowledge of Islam is equal to that of a Klansman's knowledge of black people.

How rude of me.

I have been monopolizing the debate on Islam here.

I think it is time for you and anyone else who knows more about Islam to share your interpretation of it from the point of view of doctrine and how it pertains to unbelievers, or Kafirs.

Kafirs are what most of our DP members are.

Please, take the floor.

Educate us non believing Kafirs about the goals and the true nature of Islam.

:cool:
 
How rude of me.

I have been monopolizing the debate on Islam here.

I think it is time for you and anyone else who knows more about Islam to share your interpretation of it from the point of view of doctrine and how it pertains to unbelievers, or Kafirs.

Kafirs are what most of our DP members are.

Please, take the floor.

Educate us non believing Kafirs about the goals and the true nature of Islam.

:cool:

He can't educate the ignorant.
 
How do you know that termites can't eat your house from under you and from around you without doing an inspection of your house?

You remain resistant to educating yourself about Islam.

How can you look yourself in the mirror?

How can you blithely spew ignorance and still pose as a credible pundit?

:lol:

They have taken over other countries using a minimum of violence. And others with violent and non violent jihad.

And some by using the promise of Democratic rule only to abolish democracy once they achieved power.

You are woefully uninformed.

Please stop talking about things you have no idea about.

Here is a rough analysis of how they have done it and are doing it elsewhere.

Articles: The Five Stages of Islam
You accuse me of "blithely spewing ignorance," then quote the American Thinker?

laughing.gif

That has to be the funniest thing I've read in some time.
 
I vote for not having invaded at all, but then, it's way too late for that.

Here is how I think about a painful event or experience.

Instead of simply licking my wounds and feeling bad about it, I try to consider it as an expensive tuition payment in advance.

Now, the challenge is to find the lesson or lessons that I have already paid for.

My question for you and anyone reading this, "What was or is the lesson(s)?"

And "What should we do or not do or do differently now that we have paid for this lesson or these lessons?"

How will that tuition enhance our future decision making?

And if you can't figure out the lesson then you threw that money away.

And in this case, money and lives.
 
I believe Saddam Hussein needed to be dealt with, he was being very uncooperative with UN weapon inspectors. However we decided to bring far more force and destruction into play than I believe was necessary. I personally believe we should have given him an ultimatum to either cooperate fully and immediately or be taken out. If he continued to be uncooperative we should have gathered intelligence (even if it took months) and made a strategic strike by bomb or a small team of commandos directly on him leaving the rest of the country alone. We should never have moved forces into the country.

Once he was killed and his successor was in place we give the same ultimatum and consequences to them, eventually whomever was in power would comply to UN weapon inspections the way they should.

Where the hell were you in 2002?
 
You accuse me of "blithely spewing ignorance," then quote the American Thinker?

laughing.gif

That has to be the funniest thing I've read in some time.

Your sense of humor is bewildering.

The information in the piece I cited is factual and documented to be true and accurate.

It provides us a pattern, an outline, a framework which we can better recognize what Muslims are doing and how they are doing it right under our noses.

If you find that to be humorous, did you also bust a gut when watching, Schindler's List?

And did you watch it over and over and over on a porn loop.

:thumbdown
 
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