View Poll Results: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

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  • Would we have invaded? Yes

    9 37.50%
  • Would we have invaded? No

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

    4 16.67%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? No

    18 75.00%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
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Thread: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  1. #71
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?
    Well, thankfully we weren't fighting the ancient Chinese. Knowing Islam and Iraqi culture was certainly important in fighting the war but the question was knowing the truth about Islam should we have started the war. Knowing about Islam should not have had an impact. In addition, Islam wasn't the enemy. The Hussein Regime was.

    I once heard a story that during the invasion our psyops people broadcast messages from tanks and Humvees when the war started that insulted the manhood of Iraqi men as they rolled into a new town. Fighters would become agitated they would come out of hiding to fire on our troops and then get shot. A knowledge of the culture is important when fighting. Islam was not the determining factor in starting the war however.
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Well, thankfully we weren't fighting the ancient Chinese. Knowing Islam and Iraqi culture was certainly important in fighting the war but the question was knowing the truth about Islam should we have started the war. Knowing about Islam should not have had an impact. In addition, Islam wasn't the enemy. The Hussein Regime was.

    I once heard a story that during the invasion our psyops people broadcast messages from tanks and Humvees when the war started that insulted the manhood of Iraqi men as they rolled into a new town. Fighters would become agitated they would come out of hiding to fire on our troops and then get shot. A knowledge of the culture is important when fighting. Islam was not the determining factor in starting the war however.
    I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

    Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?

  3. #73
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

    Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?
    You are right about the lack of understanding and will of this administration and the Bush administration about Islam and Iraqi culture when it comes to managing the war and our relationship in the region. That's a different topic than the one which started this thread.

    The Bush administration, right or wrong, thought that a stable Iraq would establish self governance, a degree of free elections and a democratically elected government. They believed in nation building. Iraq had lived under a dictatorship for so long it's people didn't have the cultural values for free society. To hold the country together they needed a strong dictator. What they got was graft and corruption as the US money spigot flowed into the country. The new government poorly managed the Shia Sunni divide and the Iraqi people had no passion for the new government. That's why the Iraqi army gets beaten like a cheap screen door.

    The Obama administration believes that if they stand far enough away from the conflict what ever will happen does happen. As usual rather than being proactive, they are reactive and only involves themselves in the larger struggle as they bend to public pressure. They have no strategy not because the Pentagon hasn't figured one out, but because they don't want one. As a result they are supporting genocide all over jihadist territories of coptic and orthodox Christians.

    The Bush administration was stupid where the Obama administration is shameful.
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Would we have invaded? Yes

    Would we have invaded? No

    Would we have invaded? Maybe

    Would we have invaded? Other


    SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

    SHOULD we have invaded? No

    SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

    SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    If we knew the actual nature of Islam I wonder if we woulda or shoulda invaded.

    One unknown aspect of the true nature of Islam is that Muslims are more Muslim than Americans are American, IMHO.

    Another is that Muslims are commanded to make every other religion and form of government ion Earth disappear.

    If we knew that we would not be overwhelmingly greeted as liberators would we have had that humanitarian motive to add to the reasons why we believed we SHOULD have invaded?
    Not relevant - hindsight is always 20/20.
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Then we would be safe from global Jihadi conquest, eh?

    Well, let me think. Iran- We wouldn't have had the ayatollahs running Iran. No hostage crisis. No anti-Americanism there caused by overthrowing their government and installing a US friendly dictator. The alternate Iran probably wouldn't be a covert supporter of Hezbollah, smuggling missiles into Lebanon.

    Al Qaeda- From my understanding, the central motivation of the 9/11 attacks was the first war with Iraq and its aftermath, permanently stationing US forces in Saudi Arabia to enforce the southern no-fly zone. According to wahabisism, part of the public school education offered in Saudi Arabia, I suspect strategically included by the Royal family to the keep the peasant population disinterested in materialism so they can enjoy their lives of luxury without compliant, the presence of a non-Islamic military force in Islamic land is an abomination and must be driven out. This was the education Osama bin laden and most of the hijackers were raised with and paid for by Americans at the gas pump.

    Iraq- Due to oil's monopoly status over American transportation, we've had to live in marriages of convenience with regimes we normally would have avoided. Iraq was one such relationship. OPEC, the antitrust oil cartel, was formed as a way for dictators to make out like bandits on the backs of the American people. Saddam Hussein broke ranks with them and bailed America out of the energy crisis of the 1970s. It wasn't until his invasion of Kuwait and more importantly, his next planned move, to take over Saudi Arabia, that he fell out of favor with the US. War and then sanctions claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis including many of not mostly children who did not have access to medicine. This created what turned out to be a major motivation for anti-American sentiment in the region as a new form of media emerged, satellite news channels. These Arab news channels made America out to be an evil society who could care less if hundreds of thousands of their children died as long as we got their oil. This turned out to be an inadvertent recruitment tool for terrorism.

    In the meantime, we have the technology to add a new form of transportation energy in the form of electric cars. However, there is an entire segment of the population who have been convinced by their favorite talk show host to oppose anything except the oil monopoly if you love America and hate communism.

    So yes, if we weren't entangled in the Middle East over oil, I think the jihadists would be as concerned with US as they are Brazil.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-14-15 at 08:20 AM.
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?
    I don't know, but the results of the war demonstrate that the "know your enemy" phrase is an essential part of warfare.
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post

    Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?
    I've wondered about that. Is it for the same reason they fled before the US forces, is it because of sympathy with the enemy, or is it a bit of both?
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I would support a well planned strategy to remove Kim Jong un.
    The Chinese will be the ones that do it.
    He takes ill suddenly and passes from a brain aneurism.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    The Chinese will be the ones that do it.
    He takes ill suddenly and passes from a brain aneurism.
    That could happen.

    But, who would replace him?
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That could happen.

    But, who would replace him?
    Do not know. Just know (opinion) the Chinese ain't to happy with him.
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