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If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  • Would we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24
We're you carrying a bible, or wearing a star of David?

Then I could have had problems, just like I would have if I were carrying an Iranian flag and a Qur'an down the street in my home town of Indianola, MS.

You have to remember, guy, that most tourists carry their own problems with them. Yes, there are some that get in trouble through no fault of their own, but the vast majority of tourists who do have problems are the ones who (inadvertently or deliberately) disrespect local cultures and mores.

What I'm referring to, however, isn't concerning tourists, but concerning the general level of crime in Dubai vs. that of Seattle...which is normally seen as relatively safe compared to many US cities.
 
If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

Would we have invaded? Yes

Would we have invaded? No

Would we have invaded? Maybe

Would we have invaded? Other


SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

SHOULD we have invaded? No

SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

SHOULD we have invaded? Other

If we knew the actual nature of Islam I wonder if we woulda or shoulda invaded.

One unknown aspect of the true nature of Islam is that Muslims are more Muslim than Americans are American, IMHO.

Another is that Muslims are commanded to make every other religion and form of government ion Earth disappear.

If we knew that we would not be overwhelmingly greeted as liberators would we have had that humanitarian motive to add to the reasons why we believed we SHOULD have invaded?

One trick pony applies.
 
If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

Would we have invaded? Yes

Would we have invaded? No

Would we have invaded? Maybe

Would we have invaded? Other


SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

SHOULD we have invaded? No

SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

SHOULD we have invaded? Other

If we knew the actual nature of Islam I wonder if we woulda or shoulda invaded.

One unknown aspect of the true nature of Islam is that Muslims are more Muslim than Americans are American, IMHO.

Another is that Muslims are commanded to make every other religion and form of government ion Earth disappear.

If we knew that we would not be overwhelmingly greeted as liberators would we have had that humanitarian motive to add to the reasons why we believed we SHOULD have invaded?

Taz, you're not going back far enough. Oil, America's crack addiction, goes back to the 1950s when we overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed a US friendly dictator. This set in motion a course of events that led to insane crazies kicking out the dictators who want to destroy America (the great Satan) and wipe Israel off the map.

But if you want to focus on more recent events, IMHO if we've invested 1/10 of the cost to go to war with Iraq instead into the development of car they don't require petroleum, half the vehicles on the roads today would be cars, trucks, vans and SUVs than run on electricity with long ranges. And for those who still prefer gasoline cars, because supply would be so plentiful because of the lack of demand, gas would be under a dollar a gallon. Plus no ISIS.
 
Then I could have had problems, just like I would have if I were carrying an Iranian flag and a Qur'an down the street in my home town of Indianola, MS.

You have to remember, guy, that most tourists carry their own problems with them. Yes, there are some that get in trouble through no fault of their own, but the vast majority of tourists who do have problems are the ones who (inadvertently or deliberately) disrespect local cultures and mores.

What I'm referring to, however, isn't concerning tourists, but concerning the general level of crime in Dubai vs. that of Seattle...which is normally seen as relatively safe compared to many US cities.

True, but in Seattle one doesn't worry about having a limb removed for stealing an old ladies purse. I would also say that comparing carrying a "koran" in America to walking around with a christian bible in Dubi is an apples/oranges comparison...
 
we did not invade because of islam/nukes/or weapons of mass destruction...it was about Cheney and the oil...Halliburton....
 
yes bush created isil by knocking out saddam but Obama has to try to clean it up...Obama is not going to let American soldiers die for another country...Iraq...we almost have to wait until isis does an actual killing on American soil..then we can hurt them even though we have killed almost 10000 of them with air power ...I know that means nothing to a lot of people on this site. the wrong administration did it...lol....but if we had soldiers on the ground and killed 10000 wonder if it would have a different affect on American critics of the president
 
oil not nukes....boss
 
did anyone out here see the movie 'W' about George bush???? do you remember Colin Powell asking Cheney and bush what is the exit strategy for Iraq.... and Cheney said there is none....that statement was made for the oil and nothing else...
 
The rational for invading Iraq was they wouldn't allow weapons inspectors inspect weapons sites, they shot at our planes who enforced the no fly zone established and there was the threat of WMD's that some claim was based on faulty intelligence.

Let me say that on another message board, which by the way was quite liberal, I publicly opposed the invasion. I still think it was a bad idea but once the invasion started victory was the only acceptable option.

Having said that, knowledge of Islam had no impact on the decision to invade the country.

With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?
 
did anyone out here see the movie 'W' about George bush???? do you remember Colin Powell asking Cheney and bush what is the exit strategy for Iraq.... and Cheney said there is none....that statement was made for the oil and nothing else...

Aside from your arguable conclusion, let's get to the meat of this matter.

Don't you feel that oil is worth dying for?
 
With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?

Sun Tzu also said that war should be the last resort.

And we made Islam our enemy by meddling in the Middle East to begin with.
 
we did not invade because of islam/nukes/or weapons of mass destruction...it was about Cheney and the oil...Halliburton....

Tell us about the millions of gallons of oil Halliburton stole from the Iraqis.

:lamo
 
Sun Tzu also said that war should be the last resort.

And we made Islam our enemy by meddling in the Middle East to begin with.

Show me the part of the Koran, Sira or Hadith which exempted America from conquest if we just stayed in our Continent and didn't meddle in the Middle East.
 
Taz, you're not going back far enough. Oil, America's crack addiction, goes back to the 1950s when we overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed a US friendly dictator. This set in motion a course of events that led to insane crazies kicking out the dictators who want to destroy America (the great Satan) and wipe Israel off the map.

But if you want to focus on more recent events, IMHO if we've invested 1/10 of the cost to go to war with Iraq instead into the development of car they don't require petroleum, half the vehicles on the roads today would be cars, trucks, vans and SUVs than run on electricity with long ranges. And for those who still prefer gasoline cars, because supply would be so plentiful because of the lack of demand, gas would be under a dollar a gallon. Plus no ISIS.

Then we would be safe from global Jihadi conquest, eh?

:lamo
 
Show me the part of the Koran, Sira or Hadith which exempted America from conquest if we just stayed in our Continent and didn't meddle in the Middle East.

Show me the part of Koran or the bible where it even mentions America.
 
Show me the part of Koran or the bible where it even mentions America.

Exactly.

It doesn't.

What it mentions is the world.

Which means that we have always been destined for conquest no matter what we did or did not do.

In May 1998 Jonathan Miller, then a reporter with ABC News, now a consultant on terrorism for Los Angeles, interviews bin Laden, who believes that he is a servant of Allah and that his primary mission is to spread by fighting the religion of light.

I am one of the servants of Allah. We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah. It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam. Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion. ...

In November 2001, after 9/11, bin Laden allows an interview with Hamid Mir, the editor of an Arabic-language journal. The terrorist pulls back a little from his wish to slaughter innocent people, though he has said in numerous other statements and interviews that he is justified in doing so. His mission is to spread the Quran:

Hamid Mir: Can it be said that you are against the American government, not the American people?

Osama: Yes! We are carrying on the mission of our Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). The mission is to spread the word of God, not to indulge [in] massacring people.

In December 2001 bin Laden records a video in which he and a sheikh extol the 9/11 attacks. He wants everyone to utter the first of the five pillars of Islam, a confession of faith that is the first step in accepting the "true religion," the one for which that bin Laden is fighting.

I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad.

In the same video bin Laden reports that after the attacks many converted to Islam, and many others were at least curious about true Islam, possibly converting to it.

Some of them said that in Holland, at one of the centers, the number of people who accepted Islam during the days that followed the operations were more than the people who accepted Islam in the last eleven years. I heard someone on Islamic radio who owns a school in America say: "We don’t have time to keep up with the demands of those who are asking about Islamic books to learn about Islam." This event made people think (about true Islam) which benefited Islam greatly.

On September 11, 2004, the three-year anniversary of 9/11, al-Zarqawi assumes that spreading Islam around the world is difficult, but that the holy warriors should not give up:

As for you, fighters who came from afar, by Allah, missions of da'wa [the propagation of Islam] have never been a road lined with roses and sweet basil; the price of da'wa missions is heavy, and the price of bringing principles to the land of reality is a lot of torn limbs and blood. The light of dawn shall not be lit in this darkness save by Jihad fighters and shahids.

Thus, in the words of these two visible terrorists the ultimate goal of Islam is to spread the message and ways of Allah around the world because Islam is the gift of God, the greatest seal and capstone of inferior Judaism and Christianity. How is this goal best manifested and carried out? In following the Quran and sharia (Islamic law), which expresses God’s will and ways in a pristine form.

Ultimately, violent and non-violent radicals want religious world domination.

Where do bin Laden and al-Zarqawi get this goal of spreading Islam around the world? Out of thin air? Why do not Evangelical Christians use violence and other extreme means to spread their message? After all, Christ said to his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel (Matt 28:18-20). What is the difference between the two religions in their outlook and methods of promulgation?

The Ultimate Goal of Islam: World Domination
 
I believe I have just identified one.

Well looks like an intelligent conversation with you is impossible. Have fun with your Glenn Beck worldview, Im sure he will be giving you more updates on the Queen's death.
 
Well looks like an intelligent conversation with you is impossible. Have fun with your Glenn Beck worldview, Im sure he will be giving you more updates on the Queen's death.

Pffft.

Don't go away mad. Just go away.

:lamo
 
With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?

Well, thankfully we weren't fighting the ancient Chinese. Knowing Islam and Iraqi culture was certainly important in fighting the war but the question was knowing the truth about Islam should we have started the war. Knowing about Islam should not have had an impact. In addition, Islam wasn't the enemy. The Hussein Regime was.

I once heard a story that during the invasion our psyops people broadcast messages from tanks and Humvees when the war started that insulted the manhood of Iraqi men as they rolled into a new town. Fighters would become agitated they would come out of hiding to fire on our troops and then get shot. A knowledge of the culture is important when fighting. Islam was not the determining factor in starting the war however.
 
Well, thankfully we weren't fighting the ancient Chinese. Knowing Islam and Iraqi culture was certainly important in fighting the war but the question was knowing the truth about Islam should we have started the war. Knowing about Islam should not have had an impact. In addition, Islam wasn't the enemy. The Hussein Regime was.

I once heard a story that during the invasion our psyops people broadcast messages from tanks and Humvees when the war started that insulted the manhood of Iraqi men as they rolled into a new town. Fighters would become agitated they would come out of hiding to fire on our troops and then get shot. A knowledge of the culture is important when fighting. Islam was not the determining factor in starting the war however.

I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?
 
I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?

You are right about the lack of understanding and will of this administration and the Bush administration about Islam and Iraqi culture when it comes to managing the war and our relationship in the region. That's a different topic than the one which started this thread.

The Bush administration, right or wrong, thought that a stable Iraq would establish self governance, a degree of free elections and a democratically elected government. They believed in nation building. Iraq had lived under a dictatorship for so long it's people didn't have the cultural values for free society. To hold the country together they needed a strong dictator. What they got was graft and corruption as the US money spigot flowed into the country. The new government poorly managed the Shia Sunni divide and the Iraqi people had no passion for the new government. That's why the Iraqi army gets beaten like a cheap screen door.

The Obama administration believes that if they stand far enough away from the conflict what ever will happen does happen. As usual rather than being proactive, they are reactive and only involves themselves in the larger struggle as they bend to public pressure. They have no strategy not because the Pentagon hasn't figured one out, but because they don't want one. As a result they are supporting genocide all over jihadist territories of coptic and orthodox Christians.

The Bush administration was stupid where the Obama administration is shameful.
 
If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

Would we have invaded? Yes

Would we have invaded? No

Would we have invaded? Maybe

Would we have invaded? Other


SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

SHOULD we have invaded? No

SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

SHOULD we have invaded? Other

If we knew the actual nature of Islam I wonder if we woulda or shoulda invaded.

One unknown aspect of the true nature of Islam is that Muslims are more Muslim than Americans are American, IMHO.

Another is that Muslims are commanded to make every other religion and form of government ion Earth disappear.

If we knew that we would not be overwhelmingly greeted as liberators would we have had that humanitarian motive to add to the reasons why we believed we SHOULD have invaded?

Not relevant - hindsight is always 20/20.
 
Then we would be safe from global Jihadi conquest, eh?

:lamo

Well, let me think. Iran- We wouldn't have had the ayatollahs running Iran. No hostage crisis. No anti-Americanism there caused by overthrowing their government and installing a US friendly dictator. The alternate Iran probably wouldn't be a covert supporter of Hezbollah, smuggling missiles into Lebanon.

Al Qaeda- From my understanding, the central motivation of the 9/11 attacks was the first war with Iraq and its aftermath, permanently stationing US forces in Saudi Arabia to enforce the southern no-fly zone. According to wahabisism, part of the public school education offered in Saudi Arabia, I suspect strategically included by the Royal family to the keep the peasant population disinterested in materialism so they can enjoy their lives of luxury without compliant, the presence of a non-Islamic military force in Islamic land is an abomination and must be driven out. This was the education Osama bin laden and most of the hijackers were raised with and paid for by Americans at the gas pump.

Iraq- Due to oil's monopoly status over American transportation, we've had to live in marriages of convenience with regimes we normally would have avoided. Iraq was one such relationship. OPEC, the antitrust oil cartel, was formed as a way for dictators to make out like bandits on the backs of the American people. Saddam Hussein broke ranks with them and bailed America out of the energy crisis of the 1970s. It wasn't until his invasion of Kuwait and more importantly, his next planned move, to take over Saudi Arabia, that he fell out of favor with the US. War and then sanctions claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis including many of not mostly children who did not have access to medicine. This created what turned out to be a major motivation for anti-American sentiment in the region as a new form of media emerged, satellite news channels. These Arab news channels made America out to be an evil society who could care less if hundreds of thousands of their children died as long as we got their oil. This turned out to be an inadvertent recruitment tool for terrorism.

In the meantime, we have the technology to add a new form of transportation energy in the form of electric cars. However, there is an entire segment of the population who have been convinced by their favorite talk show host to oppose anything except the oil monopoly if you love America and hate communism.

So yes, if we weren't entangled in the Middle East over oil, I think the jihadists would be as concerned with US as they are Brazil.
 
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