View Poll Results: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

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  • Would we have invaded? Yes

    9 37.50%
  • Would we have invaded? No

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

    4 16.67%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? No

    18 75.00%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
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Thread: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  1. #231
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    CONTINUED FROM POST #230.

    We are the ones who don't understand it and that is to our detriment.

    Know your enemy is what Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz taught.

    We are almost 15 years removed from 9/11 and we STILL are ignorant of Islam. And many of us actually prefer remaining ignorant!

    A sure way to lose.

    Anyway, back to ISIS.

    When push comes to shove, i.e. when jihad comes knocking on the Iraqi soldiers' door, (when ISIS starts advancing on their positions) many of the Iraqi government soldiers experience a genuine 'come to Mohammed' moment.

    And that is the bottom line here.

    They can't be trusted to continue to fight for freedom as we know it unless we are there in great strength.

    It is absolutely not ingrained in them that Freedom & Democracy is the highest ideal.

    To THEIR culture, upbringing, society, teaching and way of life for all of their lives, ISLAM and MOHAMMED and the Koran, Sira and Hadith are, have been and will remain IT.

    And if THAT isn't enough, the M.E. saying made famous by OBL should be kept in mind.

    "No one ever said it better than Osama bin Laden: “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse.”.

    While we were there and in numbers there is no question that we were the strong horse and the Iraqis responded to our strength.

    But once we left, ISIS became the strong horse.

    And that will always be so.

    Therefore, I believe if our political and military leaders understood what you (hopefully) now understand, they might have done somethings differently than they did.

  2. #232
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    lol... So apparently, Bill French, who again was a physicist with zero training in theology or comparative religion, is the ONLY Westerner who understands Islam.

    You do realize there are people who get an education in comparative religion and Islamic studies, yes? Who disagree with French's Muslim-hating perspective? Or is everyone wrong, except you and French?

    Then why haven't our Jihad problems been better explained by those other folks?

    You know that what I am posting is factual. If it wasn't you and a dozen others would be all over me citing inaccuracy and falsehoods left and right.

    But that isn't happening.

    And so, if they aren't saying my info is inaccurate and you aren't saying it is inaccurate then it must be pretty accurate.

    But tell me this: Why haven't you or they been more forthcoming with the real info about Islam that I post?

    Why aren't MUSLIMS posting this info?

    I think the answer speaks for itself.

    You and they are quite content to allow us to go quietly to our fate at the hands of your fellow Muslims.

    Shame on you.

    That's no way for a guest in this country to treat his hosts.

  3. #233
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I will guess you are a Muslim. This post is written in that context.

    What I believe in is being a conduit for information which will give American non Muslims, i.e. Kafirs, the information you have very nicely kept hidden from us about Islam.

    This is information we have a right and a need to know in order to protect ourselves from the campaign of Jihad directed against ALL non Muslims, starting 1400 years ago, by The Prophet.

    And you seem to feel put upon because we would protect ourselves from you?

    That is unreasonable to expect.

    In the early 20th Century there was a woman named Mary Mallon, who earned the derogatory nickname, "Typhoid Mary."



    The Story of Typhoid Mary

    The ONLY thing one can say in her defense is that she really did not believe or understand how she, a healthy woman, could possibly have infected others.

    Neither you, nor any other American Muslims, can claim you do not know the goals of Islam is to conquer the World for Allah.

    You can not claim to be innocent as you cry, 'woe is me I am a persecuted innocent Muslim.'


    You know what the Koran says about kafirs. You know what the plan of conquest entails, generally. You know that we have been and to a great extent, still are completely blind to what you know is planned and currently being carried out to bring Islam's goals to fruition.

    And yet you say nothing to warn us.

    You contine to play the innocent little victim of racism and bigoty.

    Well, here is the bottom line.

    You can't be trusted.

    None of you.

    Oh, some here and there may be trustworthy, but it is IN SPITE OF what the Prophet instructs.

    So, as you deceive us and keep us in the dark as you practice Jihad (YES JIHAD) on these very pages, you have duped enough of us Kafirs to take pity on you while you sit back and see just how gullible we will remain.

    And all I am doing is making the Prophet's words, deeds and instructions known to my fellow Kafirs so as to open our eyes to the war being waged on us.

    Islam is waging war while we are waging nice.

    Jihadists are playing to win while we are playing to tie.

    Well, I think it is time we wake up to the truth.

    You wouldn't blame us for trying to prevent being conquered would you?

    Doesn't the Prophet say something about that?
    Wow. As expected your post met my lowest expectations from you.

    Odd thing is I am a Christian.
    You again demonstrated how your deductive reasoning is wrong again.
    Yet you claim to have researched and educated yourself on Islam.
    Another one down the toilet for you.
    Nothing exceptional about you or your ill informed hatred.
    You are a run of the mill type who has a one trick pony mantra based upon hate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  4. #234
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Wow. As expected your post met my lowest expectations from you.

    Odd thing is I am a Christian.
    You again demonstrated how your deductive reasoning is wrong again.
    Yet you claim to have researched and educated yourself on Islam.
    Another one down the toilet for you.
    Nothing exceptional about you or your ill informed hatred.
    You are a run of the mill type who has a one trick pony mantra based upon hate.


    I forget if I'm required to make some textual commentary. If so, I hope this suffices.

    Anything more would border on the unkind.

  5. #235
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil
    We are the ones who don't understand it and that is to our detriment.

    Know your enemy is what Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz taught.
    I get what you're saying per your posts #230 and 231, respectively. It's on par with what the war fighting philosophy and tactics executed by LtGen Hal Moore from the early phase of the U.S. involvement in the Korean War. (For those who don't know, see the movie "We Were Soldiers".) He took the same philosophy as both Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz into that war and won...that was until our more senior military and political leaders pulled him out.

    You can also take Gen. Colin Powell's words to heart when he said, "If you break it, you bought it!" He wasn't just referring to the Iraqi government or its military defense apparatus. He was talking about the entire country as a whole. I'm sure deep down in places GW Bush and even Dick Chaney (aka, Tricky Dick II) don't want people to know about they harbor some level of regret for stirring up this hornets nest. That said, we have the benefit of hindsight to guide us today. From that premise, I can agree with you. If we knew then what we know now about the relentlessness of Middle Easterner fighters who either believe fully in their religious cause OR are merely conscripts who would rather take their chances and die in battle as opposed to dying at the hands of someone whom they believe is more ruthless than any American or European fighter, then no I don't think we would have gone to war in Iraq or even pulled our troops from Iraq after the war was presumably over. BUT...you have to realize that ISIL/ISIS only came about because its leadership took advantage of a power vacuum at the lower levels of local government of which the newly formed Iraqi government didn't see coming OR was ill-prepared to deal with. And thus, when ISIL/ISIS came to these small towns and villages and there was no backup/no coalition forces behind them to aid them in fighting back...well, to echo a now popular SCI-Fi phrase, "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN".

    The question now before us is "Do we go back and this time be ALL IN?" What is it that we have to gain from being so deeply involved that goes beyond 'American Pride'?" That's the question I believe most Americans and even President Obama is wrestling with. Are we now responsible for bringing stability to the region? And what exactly does that mean? What would a 'stable' Iraq even look like?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-19-15 at 01:29 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  6. #236
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post


    I forget if I'm required to make some textual commentary. If so, I hope this suffices.

    Anything more would border on the unkind.
    You feel free to say what you wish.
    Clearly you are a low end follower of ERWF, and cannot keep up with the rhetoric or facts, or even a reasonable conclusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  7. #237
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I get what you're saying per your posts #230 and 231, respectively. It's on par with what the war fighting philosophy and tactics executed by LtGen Hal Moore from the early phase of the U.S. involvement in the Korean War. (For those who don't know, see the movie "We Were Soldiers".) He took the same philosophy as both Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz into that war and won...that was until our more senior military and political leaders pulled him out.

    You can also take Gen. Colin Powell's words to heart when he said, "If you break it, you bought it!" He wasn't just referring to the Iraqi government or its military defense apparatus. He was talking about the entire country as a whole. I'm sure deep down in places GW Bush and even Dick Chaney (aka, Tricky Dick II) don't want people to know about they harbor some level of regret for stirring up this hornets nest. That said, we have the benefit of hindsight to guide us today. From that premise, I can agree with you. If we knew then what we know now about the relentlessness of Middle Easterner fighters who either believe fully in their religious cause OR are merely conscripts who would rather take their chances and die in battle as opposed to dying at the hands of someone whom they believe is more ruthless than any American or European fighter, then no I don't think we would have gone to war in Iraq or even pulled our troops from Iraq after the war was presumably over. BUT...you have to realize that ISIL/ISIS only came about because its leadership took advantage of a power vacuum at the lower levels of local government of which the newly formed Iraqi government didn't see coming OR was ill-prepared to deal with. And thus, when ISIL/ISIS came to these small towns and villages and there was no backup/no coalition forces behind them to aid them in fighting back...well, to echo a now popular SCI-Fi phrase, "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN".

    The question now before us is "Do we go back and this time be ALL IN?" What is it that we have to gain from being so deeply involved that goes beyond 'American Pride'?" That's the question I believe most Americans and even President Obama is wrestling with. Are we now responsible for bringing stability to the region? And what exactly does that mean? What would a 'stable' Iraq even look like?


    Excellent questions.

    I don't know.

    One alternative would be to abandon the area completely as much as we can afford to, (oil interests in mind).

    Another way might be to get bogged down in a good guy vs bad guy situation in a virtual recreation of the Israeli-Palestinian impasse with no end in sight.

    And we know that even when Ataturk secularized Turkey for almost 100 years the fundamentalists have come back to take over once they had the slightest opportunity to do so.

    As I sit here typing and thinking, I am beginning to wonder if we might be in for a period of consolidation into armed and restricted camps/nations.

    Ironically, that is the way Islam has always seen the world, IINM. As the House of Islam and the House of War. Anything that isn't one is the other.

    And so we might have to look at those nations which are already Muslim as gone and not salvageable.

    And those nations which are still non Muslims but undergoing Islamization, those should be given the highest priority and defended like hell lest they be overwhelmed.

    The Cold War would be like a walk in the park compared to what MIGHT have to be done.

    And you know what?

    I wouldn't be surprised if this post gets seen by decision makers in the Muslim Brotherhood before it is seen by decision makers in Washington; the Pentagon, the State Dept. or the WH.
    Last edited by Tazmanian Devil; 06-20-15 at 10:58 PM.

  8. #238
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    You feel free to say what you wish.
    Clearly you are a low end follower of ERWF, and cannot keep up with the rhetoric or facts, or even a reasonable conclusion.
    Cardinal said one of his posts, 'no grunting.'

    I say, 'no barking.'

    ERWF!

  9. #239
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Cardinal said one of his posts, 'no grunting.'

    I say, 'no barking.'

    ERWF!
    No barking here. You are like a whiny kid on a one way topic of Hate Muslims.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  10. #240
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if this post gets seen by decision makers in the Muslim Brotherhood before it is seen by decision makers in Washington; the Pentagon, the State Dept. or the WH.
    I bet it doesn't get seen by any of them.
    Spin Proof

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