View Poll Results: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

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  • Would we have invaded? Yes

    9 37.50%
  • Would we have invaded? No

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

    4 16.67%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? No

    18 75.00%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
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Thread: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  1. #201
    Student Atiya's Avatar
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    How can anyone know what would happen had Saddam stayed in power and allowed to continue to commit his atrocities and maintain his tyrannical regime?

    You can say that he had a stable regime, sure I guess if that's something one can consider to be stable, but so did Assad until what, four years ago? And the US and the world didn't take him out, so how come Syria suddenly moved from a status of complete stability (again, if you can consider it as such) to the status of chaos and eternal bloodshed that it exists in, in recent years?

    I don't think anyone can determine what would be the situation in Iraq by now had Saddam stayed in power.
    You miss the point. Saddam Hussein had used mustard gas on the Kurds and some Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war and the US remained friendly with the Iraqi dictator. Clearly using nerve gas on its own citizens, the Kurds, did not prevent the US and Iraq friendship from developing full steam. There was absolutely no reason for the US to invade Iraq.* The talk of WMD was propaganda pure and simple and exaggerated by this term "we don't want to wait until we see a mushroom cloud over our heads" by Condoleezza Rice. Cheney wanted to invade Iraq for profiteering and complete control of Iraqi oil contracts. The 9/11 attack seem to give the GWB/Cheney administration exactly what they wanted, a motive to go to war and they took full advantage. They first went to Afghanistan, obstensibly to look for Bin Ladin, and after a few days, left a skeleton crew in that Taliban country and went directly to invade Iraq. They tried to make a connection between Iraq and 9/11 but were unable to do so. The US should never have invaded Iraq because we did not have a reason.

    *The first Gulf War, Desert Storm, was for political reasons only! George Herbert Walker Bush was hoping to be elected for a second term, but his poll numbers were extremely low, showing he was unlikely to be reelected. (Bush realized that in a time of war, the American people tend to rally around their president and that would give him the edge over his opponent for reelection.) Saddam had said repeatedly he was going to invade Kuwait, which realistically at one time, was a part of Iraq. The senior Bush said the US would not interfere in neighborhood matters between people in the middle east. That attitude gave Saddam Hussein the green light, to go ahead and invade Kuwait as the US would not intervene. Even the US Embassador, Aprile Glaspy, never alerted the dictator the US would intervene if he went ahead and invaded Kuwait.

    As soon as Saddam invaded Kuwait, the two-faced Geoge Herbert Walker Bush put together a coalition of countries to oust Saddam from Kuwait. To the president's credit, he did not invade Iraq, only forced Hussein back into his lair. The senior Bush got a bump out of the brief war (only a few days), but the higher poll numbers did not last long and he lost his reelection.
    "The only constant in life is change."
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  2. #202
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atiya View Post
    You miss the point. Saddam Hussein had used mustard gas on the Kurds and some Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war and the US remained friendly with the Iraqi dictator. Clearly using nerve gas on its own citizens, the Kurds, did not prevent the US and Iraq friendship from developing full steam. There was absolutely no reason for the US to invade Iraq.* The talk of WMD was propaganda pure and simple and exaggerated by this term "we don't want to wait until we see a mushroom cloud over our heads" by Condoleezza Rice. Cheney wanted to invade Iraq for profiteering and complete control of Iraqi oil contracts. The 9/11 attack seem to give the GWB/Cheney administration exactly what they wanted, a motive to go to war and they took full advantage. They first went to Afghanistan, obstensibly to look for Bin Ladin, and after a few days, left a skeleton crew in that Taliban country and went directly to invade Iraq. They tried to make a connection between Iraq and 9/11 but were unable to do so. The US should never have invaded Iraq because we did not have a reason.

    *The first Gulf War, Desert Storm, was for political reasons only! George Herbert Walker Bush was hoping to be elected for a second term, but his poll numbers were extremely low, showing he was unlikely to be reelected. (Bush realized that in a time of war, the American people tend to rally around their president and that would give him the edge over his opponent for reelection.) Saddam had said repeatedly he was going to invade Kuwait, which realistically at one time, was a part of Iraq. The senior Bush said the US would not interfere in neighborhood matters between people in the middle east. That attitude gave Saddam Hussein the green light, to go ahead and invade Kuwait as the US would not intervene. Even the US Embassador, Aprile Glaspy, never alerted the dictator the US would intervene if he went ahead and invaded Kuwait.

    As soon as Saddam invaded Kuwait, the two-faced Geoge Herbert Walker Bush put together a coalition of countries to oust Saddam from Kuwait. To the president's credit, he did not invade Iraq, only forced Hussein back into his lair. The senior Bush got a bump out of the brief war (only a few days), but the higher poll numbers did not last long and he lost his reelection.
    The post of yours I was responding to was not dealing with the justifications for the Iraq war (or the two Iraq wars since you're referring here to the Bush senior Iraq war as well), but with the claim that had Iraq not been invaded it would be an island of stability in the Mideast in current time. Nothing ensures it. Assad's regime until 4 years ago was no less stable than that of Saddam under his rule. ISIS and the different groups could just as well target Saddam's regime as it does Assad's these days.

    Regarding your post however I don't think there's much to say about the US being friendly with nations that commit atrocities and I don't think one needs to look at the past since Saudi Arabia executes people who convert from Islam, drink alcohol or are homosexuals and yet it is a key US ally.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  3. #203
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Would we have invaded? Of course we would, for the same reason we did, because Bush was mad that Saddam tried to kill his daddy. Should we have done it? Nope, no more than we actually should have. Nothing would have changed.
    It was actually far more complicated and noble than that.... but the reasons ended up being just as absurd because our leaders were idealistic, naive and ill-infomed (and it had nothing do to with WMD).

    http://carnegieendowment.org/files/Policybrief20.pdf
    Democracy and Demagoguery in the Middle East | Cato Institute

  4. #204
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Unfortunately, in the eyes of most conservatives, you are now officially a commie/nazi/socialist/atheist/Muslim heretic who hates freedom and wants to impose Sharia law on America. Welcome to the group!
    The man found a cute story, and you lap up like dog vomit. Here's what your leftwing MSM and Muslims want us to see.

    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  5. #205
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The man found a cute story, and you lap up like dog vomit. Here's what your leftwing MSM and Muslims want us to see.

    What the hell does this even mean?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  6. #206
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The post of yours I was responding to was not dealing with the justifications for the Iraq war (or the two Iraq wars since you're referring here to the Bush senior Iraq war as well), but with the claim that had Iraq not been invaded it would be an island of stability in the Mideast in current time. Nothing ensures it. Assad's regime until 4 years ago was no less stable than that of Saddam under his rule. ISIS and the different groups could just as well target Saddam's regime as it does Assad's these days.

    Regarding your post however I don't think there's much to say about the US being friendly with nations that commit atrocities and I don't think one needs to look at the past since Saudi Arabia executes people who convert from Islam, drink alcohol or are homosexuals and yet it is a key US ally.
    ISIS only exists because Iraq was destablised.
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  7. #207
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    What the hell does this even mean?
    The fact that YOU asked the question means I know you're just BSing. In 15 ****ing years we see one cute little story about a jewish grandma, and we suppose to buy into that image over the one I posted? Whoever thinks that better try harder. Hate and burning flags is the face of Islam, until stop doing it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country spoke, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #208
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    ISIS only exists because Iraq was destablised.
    ISIS specifically yes it is an offshoot of al-Qaeda, but in an alternate universe where Iraq is not invaded nothing ensures Saddam would not at some point have to face Islamic militias such as ISIS, like Assad had to face even though Syria was not invaded. This is the path Islamic societies had taken and would have taken regardless of an invasion to Iraq and Afghanistan as evident in the cases of Syria and Libya.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  9. #209
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Partially correct.
    The rationale for the Iraq war was as following:



    The rationale was thus to remove the regime; with the given reasoning that it developed and used WMDs, harbored and supported terrorists and terrorism, committed atrocities and human right abuses and defied demands from the UN security council.

    That there were no signs of WMDs is correct, all of the rest of the given reasons for the regime removal however did apply and were correct.
    Plenty of countries around the world violate human rights, but that doesn't mean that invading them is justified or a remotely good idea. All of those reasons on their own do not hold as much weight as rationale to invade without possession of weapons of mass destruction.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  10. #210
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Plenty of countries around the world violate human rights, but that doesn't mean that invading them is justified or a remotely good idea. All of those reasons on their own do not hold as much weight as rationale to invade without possession of weapons of mass destruction.
    While in a perfect world a regime that tortures its own citizens and deprives them of their basic human rights such as North Korea for example would not be allowed to exist, I agree that it cannot be a reasonable rationale for an invasion. There was however also the reasoning of granting support for terrorism, terrorism that targeted the Western world and not just Iraq's own population. I do agree however that the WMDs claim which turned up to be completely false was the main reasoning behind the invasion, obviously.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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