View Poll Results: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

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  • Would we have invaded? Yes

    9 37.50%
  • Would we have invaded? No

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • Would we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Yes

    4 16.67%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? No

    18 75.00%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Maybe

    1 4.17%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    0 0%
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Thread: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  1. #191
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    You will, no doubt, be interested in seeing a graphic illustration of how Islam spread due to violent Jihad.
    Again... lol

    I am more than well aware that Islam was spread by force. I'm also aware that Christians, in the name of Christ and His Church, enslaved Central and South America; decimated the indigenous tribes of North America; enforced conversion in the New World on a wide-spread scale; enslaved millions of the indigenous population that survived the onslaught of pestilence brought by the Europeans; enslaved and forced conversions on millions of Africans. Millions of Europeans also died in wars where the choice of Christian denomination was a major issue -- right up until 2001, when the Catholics and Protestants were still blowing each other up over Northern Ireland. How many Christians were driven out of Europe and into the New World, because of their beliefs? How well did Christians treat the other Christians who immigrated only a few generations later?

    Again... This is not to say that "all Christianity is bad." Rather, you're obviously whitewashing Christianity in your attempts to vilify Islam. But in doing so, you ignore how Christianity and Christians so often did the same things which you classify as intolerable for Islam.

    Forced conversion? √
    Killing people in the name of deity? √
    Terrorism? √
    Slavery? √
    Wanting to spread their religion, ideology, ethics etc to the entire world? √

    Oh, and let's not forget how many cite Christian beliefs as a justification for capital punishment (despite the objections of the Catholic Church).

    The fact that we've outsourced the attacks on Muslims to our increasingly detached military does not change anything other than perceptions. You ignore how our nation kills Muslims, including the occasional innocent wedding party, because it's done by a military rather than a small terrorist cell.

    By the way, how many wars did Bush start because he was inspired by Christian prophecies? How many Muslims died as a result of those wars? Hmmmm. (Bush Gog and Magog | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | The Guardian)

    Again, your incredible selective interpretation of events is not impressive.


    I will give everyone time to absorb and digest the information I have posted here.
    Thankfully, it only takes a few minutes to spit out the poison.

  2. #192
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    You see, I am not trying to whitewash Christianity as much as I am trying to keep Muslim apologists from using it to hide behind.

    Jihadists are using VIOLENT JIHAD AND NON VIOLENT JIHAD to conquer the world and they are currently targeting the USA as well as other territories and peoples (hypocritical Muslims and non believers, i.e., Atheists, Christians, Jews and anyone else who isn't Muslim or Muslim enough) around the world.

    And to prevent Jihad from succeeding in the USA it is important that Kafirs (non Muslims) be made aware of the facts about Islam which Muslim apologists would rather be kept secret.

    Every criticism of my posts is evidence of how much they would rather keep us all in the dark, as we have been pretty much until recently.

    But nowhere have you seen anyone dispute the information I present.

    That is because they can't.

    They twist and turn and spin and try to bait and trap me and they do whatever they can to prevent you from believing what I post and/or to prevent my posting it.

    But so far they have only revealed themselves to be everything I have said.

    The best thing they could do would be to simply not respond at all.

    But by engaging me they give me more opportunities to present more truths which they can't stand for you to know.

    With every criticism they indict and further expose themselves.

  3. #193
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Just skipping the vague nature of the phrase "truth about Islam," the War in Iraq was not a question of religion. It was a question of possession of WMDs, and given that Iraq did not possess WMDs, invading was clearly the wrong decision in hindsight.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  4. #194
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I have been infracted for posting more than three paragraphs from texts which permit full copying without edits. However, I will abide by the DP rules.

    Three paragraphs. (Check the source) However, for readability's sake I will format them into more than three DP paragraphs.


    An Ethical Basis for War
    Aug 8 2007 | by Bill Warner

    11

    by Bill Warner

    KNOW THE ENEMY

    This work is based upon Sun Tsu’s The Art of War a 2,500 year old Chinese book of strategy.

    [B]THE ENEMY The word islam means submission . “ Submission” is a political thought. Islam claims that all who do not submit are unbelievers (kafirs). It is time to reject being named by Islam. We are not “unbelievers.” Muslims are the slaves of Allah. We are not the slaves of Allah. We do not submit. We are the Free . Instead of Muslims and nonbelievers, it is Muslims and the Free. Muslims, therefore, are the un-Free. [If you don’t know a word, look it up on the last page.] The story of Islam starts with the Jews since Islam is a Jewish heresy. The Koran endlessly adapts Jewish stories such as those of Moses and Noah to show that Mohammed is the prophet of Allah.

    The Ten Commandments is a good place to start looking at Islam. They fall into two categories—religious and ethical. Ten Commandments—Religious

    Do not have any other gods before Me.
    Do not make an image or any likeness of Me.
    Do not swear falsely by the name of the Lord.
    Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Ten Commandments—Ethical
    Honor your father and your mother.
    Do not murder.
    Do not commit adultery.
    Do not steal.
    Do not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    Do not covet your neighbor’s property.


    The only religion that follows all the religious commandments is that of the Jews. Christians do not follow the Sabbath commandment and some would argue that the Catholics and Orthodox sects use images that violate the image commandment. Hindus, Buddhists and atheists don’t follow any of the religious commandments. There are no two religions that agree on the Ten Commandments.


    An Ethical Basis for War - Political Islam
    So, the Muslims are subject to Allah, the Arabic word for god.

    and the Jews follow the Ten Commandments.

    and so....??
    Making Russia great again!



  5. #195
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Just skipping the vague nature of the phrase "truth about Islam," the War in Iraq was not a question of religion. It was a question of possession of WMDs, and given that Iraq did not possess WMDs, invading was clearly the wrong decision in hindsight.
    There you go again, trying to use reason and logic.
    Don't work out, work in.

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  6. #196
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    There was no reason to invade.
    Absolutely, there was never a reason to invade the sovereign nation of Iraq. Invading Iraq was one of the gravest mistakes of the GWB/Dick Cheney regime. We are reaping the consequences as we speak. Saddam Hussein, even though a dictator, had a system that worked. The structure he had in place kept the ethnic factions, Shia, Sunni and Kurds, from warring upon each other. Now with that structure gone, Iraq is broken, there is open war, and there is an opening for Iran to enter. The US broke Iraq and it's incumbent among the US and Britain to stabilize that country for the people there. The poll asks the wrong question.
    "The only constant in life is change."
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    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

  7. #197
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    You see, I am not trying to whitewash Christianity as much as I am trying to keep Muslim apologists from using it to hide behind.
    A more accurate assessment is: You've set up a double standard, AND you tilt the scales even further by misrepresenting Islam.

    You also fail to understand the consequences of your actions, namely that you inadvertently grant the most radical and most extreme Muslims a form of legitimacy and importance that they do not deserve, and that almost all other Muslims don't want them to have. Aside from the fact that you utterly lack the standing to declare that ISIL is the "One True Islam," you are giving ISIL exactly what they want when you do so. Good job.


    Jihadists are using VIOLENT JIHAD AND NON VIOLENT JIHAD to conquer the world and they are currently targeting the USA as well as other territories and peoples (hypocritical Muslims and non believers, i.e., Atheists, Christians, Jews and anyone else who isn't Muslim or Muslim enough) around the world.
    Christians also use violent and non-violent methods to "conquer the world."

    Christian missionaries are clearly and overtly targeting territories, peoples, Muslims, and Jews.

    I do agree that Christians mostly halted wide-spread forced conversions a few hundred years after the invasion of the New World. By the same token, Islam mostly stopped conversions by force around the same time. Go figure.


    And to prevent Jihad from succeeding in the USA it is important that Kafirs (non Muslims) be made aware of the facts about Islam which Muslim apologists would rather be kept secret.
    Please.

    The US is not going to undergo a wholesale conversion to Islam, certainly not as a result of terrorist strikes.


    Every criticism of my posts is evidence of how much they would rather keep us all in the dark, as we have been pretty much until recently.
    Or, your posts are unjustifiably spreading fear, and slandering hundreds of millions of peaceful people.


    The best thing they could do would be to simply not respond at all.
    On the contrary. We're just giving you plenty of rope.

    And who is this "they?"

  8. #198
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atiya View Post
    Absolutely, there was never a reason to invade the sovereign nation of Iraq. Invading Iraq was one of the gravest mistakes of the GWB/Dick Cheney regime. We are reaping the consequences as we speak. Saddam Hussein, even though a dictator, had a system that worked. The structure he had in place kept the ethnic factions, Shia, Sunni and Kurds, from warring upon each other. Now with that structure gone, Iraq is broken, there is open war, and there is an opening for Iran to enter. The US broke Iraq and it's incumbent among the US and Britain to stabilize that country for the people there. The poll asks the wrong question.

    The question that should have been posed was "should we have been able to predict what happens when we pop the cork from a bottle of champagne".

    Metaphorically speaking, of course.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  9. #199
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    Just skipping the vague nature of the phrase "truth about Islam," the War in Iraq was not a question of religion. It was a question of possession of WMDs, and given that Iraq did not possess WMDs, invading was clearly the wrong decision in hindsight.
    Partially correct.
    The rationale for the Iraq war was as following:

    The U.S. stated that the intent was to remove "a regime that developed and used weapons of mass destruction, that harbored and supported terrorists, committed outrageous human rights abuses, and defied the just demands of the United Nations and the world."
    The rationale was thus to remove the regime; with the given reasoning that it developed and used WMDs, harbored and supported terrorists and terrorism, committed atrocities and human right abuses and defied demands from the UN security council.

    That there were no signs of WMDs is correct, all of the rest of the given reasons for the regime removal however did apply and were correct.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  10. #200
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    Re: If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atiya View Post
    Absolutely, there was never a reason to invade the sovereign nation of Iraq. Invading Iraq was one of the gravest mistakes of the GWB/Dick Cheney regime. We are reaping the consequences as we speak. Saddam Hussein, even though a dictator, had a system that worked. The structure he had in place kept the ethnic factions, Shia, Sunni and Kurds, from warring upon each other. Now with that structure gone, Iraq is broken, there is open war, and there is an opening for Iran to enter. The US broke Iraq and it's incumbent among the US and Britain to stabilize that country for the people there. The poll asks the wrong question.
    How can anyone know what would happen had Saddam stayed in power and allowed to continue to commit his atrocities and maintain his tyrannical regime?

    You can say that he had a stable regime, sure I guess if that's something one can consider to be stable, but so did Assad until what, four years ago? And the US and the world didn't take him out, so how come Syria suddenly moved from a status of complete stability (again, if you can consider it as such) to the status of chaos and eternal bloodshed that it exists in, in recent years?

    I don't think anyone can determine what would be the situation in Iraq by now had Saddam stayed in power.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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