View Poll Results: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgeries

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Thread: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The illness doesn't come from being different. It comes from having to repress that difference. It's the same way that parents sometimes force left-handed children to become right-handed. It makes them more "normal", but it actually does lasting damage to their minds. It isn't being "abnormal" that creates a problem, it's suppressing that difference.
    If you're right, and the identity issue isn't part of a medical disorder, then there's no reason to provide medical care to normalize the identity issue.

    If dealing with the (cold, cruel) outside world (and its treatment of you) is the problem then the only "necessary" medical care would be therapy to aid in acceptance and coping.

    But I don't think you're right.

    From what I've read (sources I mentioned above) the transexual identity component of the dysphoria is the mental disorder.

    Believing that you're a gender that you are not is not "normal" (usual, average, or typical).

    It isn't evil, it doesn't mean you're dirty, it isn't grounds for persecution, etc... but it isn't "normal".

    Again, to go back to the examples I used of alcoholism and anorexia - not "normal", certainly "disorders", but absolutely not grounds for treating someone like an illegitimate piece of garbage (or for treating them any way other than you would want to be treated).

    The disorder comes from truly believing that you were born in to the wrong body.

    Feeling that way isn't normal, and it isn't healthy.

    Since you can't take the mind out of the body and put it in one that is the appropriate gender it makes sense that the logical thing to do would be to alter the existing body to make it as close to the gender the mind perceives itself to belong in as possible - in order to treat the medical problem that exists (in the mind).

    I can easily see how ostracism from others, one's own feelings about and arising from such a disorder, and efforts (failed, futile, or successful though they may be) to conform to "normality", can compound the problem that the disorder creates.

    But that clearly isn't the problem.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Efficacy is certainly a legitimate question. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that the operation is ineffective given what's in the article. It seems the jury is still out.
    From the article:

    The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.
    That's a pretty cut and dried statement.

    Granted, I'm not a doctor, but at the very least I think considerably more research on the effectiveness of gender reassignment surgery would be called for before recommending it as a cure for gender dysphoria.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    well the polls sucks cause its not public and theres only two answers so thats already a fail . . .

    anyway what the surgery is doesnt really matter much to me, my wants would never be based on bigotry etc.
    its the protocol for insurance to cover something that interests me. (if that already involves tax dollars)

    If this surgery meets that protocol as established by the medical community and that already involves tax dollars then yes. If the protocol doesnt cover it but the medical community thinks its should then it should be fixed to cover it or go through im guess an establish review process.

    So my answer would go off of whatever we basically already do cover procedures with the same classification and if that system needs improved , If so, then I suggest improving it for all procedures not just this one.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    From the article:



    That's a pretty cut and dried statement.

    Granted, I'm not a doctor, but at the very least I think considerably more research on the effectiveness of gender reassignment surgery would be called for before recommending it as a cure for gender dysphoria.
    Yes but it's caveated out the wazoo later in the article.


    For example:

    Chris Hyde, the director of Arif, said: "There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone's sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there's still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatised - often to the point of committing suicide."
    Which is a much less definitive statement.

    I agree more research should be done. With any new medical procedure it's often years or decades before a complete picture emerges. And even then that picture is always subject to revision. One thing is certain though and that's we're not going get the data if people don't get the surgery.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    If we are ever going to have any kind of universal healthcare then yes, such procedures should be covered assuming the patient and the psychiatrist agree that it is an appropriate treatment for the person's gender dysphoria.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    If you're right, and the identity issue isn't part of a medical disorder, then there's no reason to provide medical care to normalize the identity issue.

    If dealing with the (cold, cruel) outside world (and its treatment of you) is the problem then the only "necessary" medical care would be therapy to aid in acceptance and coping.

    But I don't think you're right.

    From what I've read (sources I mentioned above) the transexual identity component of the dysphoria is the mental disorder.

    Believing that you're a gender that you are not is not "normal" (usual, average, or typical).

    It isn't evil, it doesn't mean you're dirty, it isn't grounds for persecution, etc... but it isn't "normal".

    Again, to go back to the examples I used of alcoholism and anorexia - not "normal", certainly "disorders", but absolutely not grounds for treating someone like an illegitimate piece of garbage (or for treating them any way other than you would want to be treated).

    The disorder comes from truly believing that you were born in to the wrong body.

    Feeling that way isn't normal, and it isn't healthy.

    Since you can't take the mind out of the body and put it in one that is the appropriate gender it makes sense that the logical thing to do would be to alter the existing body to make it as close to the gender the mind perceives itself to belong in as possible - in order to treat the medical problem that exists (in the mind).

    I can easily see how ostracism from others, one's own feelings about and arising from such a disorder, and efforts (failed, futile, or successful though they may be) to conform to "normality", can compound the problem that the disorder creates.

    But that clearly isn't the problem.
    I didn't say it was the treatment by others that was the problem. I said it was the problem of not being the same on the inside as you are on the outside. The inside you is the real you, and not being able to be that person is the problem. It's that parts of you don't match each other, and the treatment is to tweak some parts so that everything matches.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    There better be some hardcore scientific proof before forcing people to have their tax money go into such a thing.
    There is. But you never bothered to look, did you?
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  8. #48
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    I say no and here is why

    health care is costly. even when the taxpayers are forced to cover care for those who-through one reason or another-cannot buy their own health insurance. with publicly funded healthcare, there has to be a triage in terms of allocation of health care dollars.

    Sexual reassignment surgery is at the end of the line when it comes to a triage assessment. If we had unlimited healthcare dollars it would be different. but when we have the indigent dying because they don't get routine colonoscopies or chest X-rays and then develop cancer that may have been caught early enough etc, I just don't think SRAS is something we can afford
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  9. #49
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Nope.

    If private insurance wants to cover it? Fine.

    Tax money going into it? A lot more research must be done. I could give a flying flipping mother****ing stupid ****ing **** if you want to "Feel comfortable in your skin." There better be some hardcore scientific proof before forcing people to have their tax money go into such a thing.
    Do you think tax dollars should cover treatment for depression?
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  10. #50
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    Re: Should tax dollars be used for gender reassignment surgery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Self explanatory. Do you think the government should pay, or help pay, or subsidize insurance companies, or in any other way funnel money toward assisting people to undergo gender reassignment surgeries?

    If so, to what extent?
    Don't be silly. Even in the case of hemaphrodites it does not make sense for the commons to take the costs.

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