View Poll Results: Do you believe George W Bush was a good president?

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  • Yes

    27 29.03%
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Thread: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

  1. #241
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    I know its an asinine question. It would like like asking if Ryan leaf is good qb or if lebron james is the worst player in NBA history. He failed at ever aspect of his presidency and to think otherwise would be to completely ignore the results of his presidency. I don't know how anyone can objectively conclude after looking at the results of his presidency that he is anything but a bad president. Despite his presidency being a unmitigated disaster he seems to have a loyal following here.
    While I do not think Bush was by any means a great President, I do believe he was a better one than his predecessor who fitted away a singular window of opportunity for the United States and world order in general and instead let a massive bubble build that undermined the country's superior standing after 1989.

    Bush handled the following crash competently, considering how severe the disorder had become. And it was during his administration that the US was able to convince the UN members of the advantage of enforceable r2p. This was a real great achievement. Arguably it came at a cost that was too high. Arguably not.

  2. #242
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    I dont believe , I am sure he is the stupidiest president of all times
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  3. #243
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    While I do not think Bush was by any means a great President, I do believe he was a better one than his predecessor who fitted away a singular window of opportunity for the United States and world order in general and instead let a massive bubble build that undermined the country's superior standing after 1989.

    Bush handled the following crash competently, considering how severe the disorder had become. And it was during his administration that the US was able to convince the UN members of the advantage of enforceable r2p. This was a real great achievement. Arguably it came at a cost that was too high. Arguably not.
    Solid post.

    But I am annoyed when posters use abreviations which are not known to all.

    And every poster should know that using abbreviations which are unknown to the reader pisses that reader off just a little bit. And in a post where you are trying to persuade, it doesn't help to piss off your potential supporters.

    The guide to using abbreviations is to spell it out completely the first time it is used and note the abbreviation in parenthesis.

    For example, "As Soon As Possible (A.S.A.P.)" and then throughout that post one may refer to the abbreviation.

    It keeps potential allies on your side.

    Now.

    WTF is r2p???

  4. #244
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    I dont believe , I am sure he is the stupidiest president of all times
    Do you need to be asked to elaborate every time you make a statement?

  5. #245
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Do you need to be asked to elaborate every time you make a statement?
    he is a junior moron
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  6. #246
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Do you need to be asked to elaborate every time you make a statement?
    Consider the source, and ignore.

  7. #247
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    no personl attack please
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  8. #248
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Honestly, are you just saying all those things or do you REALLY believe them?

    I mean, have you ever researched any of the criticisms at all to find out both sides of those issues?

    If you did why wouldn't you strengthen your case by alluding to the other side of the coin and telling why those arguments are mistaken?

    Because as it stands now, I can dispel almost every one of the things you posted.

    And that would embarrass you pretty badly.

    But that's not my game. I just want the facts to be presented.

    So, do you want to post the opposing arguments or shall I?
    There are obviously multiple opposing arguments to any position, and I'm not psychic, so I don't know what you're thinking. If you want to say something, you might as well post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    I can make a case for the Patriot Act which you likely have never considered and which I believe you'd find compelling.

    Here goes.

    The Patriot Act, in addition to all of the claims made for it, did an important thing for America in the days after 9/11.

    It assured all of the Bubba's in this country that they would not have to take justice into their own hands in order to keep us safe from Jihadists.

    The Patriot Act was strong medicine. Like Chemo.

    It is no joke, and it did the job of making us feel that the Government was serious about detecting the Jihadis and protecting us from a subsequent attack. It was a measure which we all could feel infringed on each of us a little even though we are patriots and innocent with nothing to hide or fear on that score.

    So, with that strong medicine America's Bubbas did not go out shooting every Muslim they saw.

    And how many Muslims ever thanked W for that?

    They ALL should have.

    It was the only thing which allowed them to live with as little fear of reprisals as they did.

    Though that isn't to say there weren't some reprisal or back-lash attacks.

    Just that there would have been more and they could have been more serious without the Patriot Act calming some American jitters.
    The argument you're proposing for the Patriot Act could apply to any course of action at all that was taken post-9/11.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    And you think it was a bad instrument among the alternatives that were? Admittedly I did not like treating terrorism as war instead of international crime. But even there, I well understand the reasoning for a more robust stand. I would have much preferred using 9.11 as a leverage to build a supranational system of r2p and dependable general enforcement. But I am not at all sure that would have worked at the time and did not believe so at the time, whereas the war approach did convince the UN to introduce the r2p norm breaking with its focus on legality based on the absolute sovereignty of the ruler in the member state, which was unheard of but important. It also has convinced the European elite of the necessity of being involved in making international peace and carrying more of the substantial hard and soft costs. Germany's present engagements and internal discussion is a point in fact.

    Bush actually did this initiative enormous good as the Bad Cop. Where we fell over was when the Good Cop lost our way.
    I fully supported intervention in Afghanistan in 2001 in order to kill Bin Laden. The Patriot Act wasn't an effective part of the post-9/11 response whatsoever, and was more an unwise action that was nonetheless taken because people felt like something had to be done.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  9. #249
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Solid post.

    But I am annoyed when posters use abreviations which are not known to all.

    And every poster should know that using abbreviations which are unknown to the reader pisses that reader off just a little bit. And in a post where you are trying to persuade, it doesn't help to piss off your potential supporters.

    The guide to using abbreviations is to spell it out completely the first time it is used and note the abbreviation in parenthesis.

    For example, "As Soon As Possible (A.S.A.P.)" and then throughout that post one may refer to the abbreviation.

    It keeps potential allies on your side.

    Now.

    WTF is r2p???
    Responsibility to Protect
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  10. #250
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    Re: Do you believe Bush was a good president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil View Post
    Solid post.

    But I am annoyed when posters use abreviations which are not known to all.

    And every poster should know that using abbreviations which are unknown to the reader pisses that reader off just a little bit. And in a post where you are trying to persuade, it doesn't help to piss off your potential supporters.

    The guide to using abbreviations is to spell it out completely the first time it is used and note the abbreviation in parenthesis.

    For example, "As Soon As Possible (A.S.A.P.)" and then throughout that post one may refer to the abbreviation.

    It keeps potential allies on your side.

    Now.

    WTF is r2p???
    R2P is a standing expression for Responsibility to Protect. It is a new norm the UN adopted in 2005. Office of The Special Adviser on The Prevention of Genocide
    There is a debate on how widely it can or should be applied and, whether the Security Council must approve under all circumstances. It is well worth googleing.

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