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Thread: Should we allow people to die?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Every now and then, people show you their true colors.

    I spent the last few days riding around in a car with a lesbian photographer from Colorado and a Belgian lady.... needless to say, both were uber-liberal.... and needless to say, we got in to some political debates.

    We started to talk about food and energy. Typical of liberal opinion, they felt that the United States is way behind, that we're awful for being the champions of fossil fuels and genetically engineered food, and that we should be more like Europe in our support of non-modified food and alternative fuels.

    I calmly let them know my opinion: Liberals are influenced by European thought, and Europeans 1.) don't have many fossil fuels and 2.) don't have a lot of sunlight or land to farm. It's in Europe's self-interest to create a world of alternative energy and in which food production can be kept local.

    They had never heard this argument before, and I could tell it sparked thought in them. The lady from Belgium started to agree somewhat with me, but the lesbian from Colorado started to dig in her liberal heels.

    I then put the final nail in the coffin.... "If we didn't have cheap fossil fuels that we can easily transport, and if we didn't have these super-crops we have today, we could never support the population levels we have today. There is no way on earth we could ever feed the whole world like we are doing now.

    This argument cut deep, and neither one said anything for about 2 minutes.


    Their reply, when it finally came, shocked me. But I think it struck at the heart of how liberals think.

    "Sometimes we just need to let people die. It's for the good of the earth. Famine and death are part of how the earth regulates itself. I don't think we should help people in any other part of the world."

    Wow, was I ever shocked. What a horrible, ugly thing to say! In my opinion, we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings. I let them know that. And we were at an impasse.

    So I leave it to you. Do we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings to create enough food and energy to keep them alive, or should we switch to windmills and organic food so that Europe can be wealthier?
    Ummm...why did you keep referring to the woman from Colorado as lesbian? Why can she not just be the woman from Colorado? If some guy says he only has sex with busty women would you call him the big boob lover from Miami?

    My guess is you have a problem with lesbians.
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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Ummm...why did you keep referring to the woman from Colorado as lesbian? Why can she not just be the woman from Colorado? If some guy says he only has sex with busty women would you call him the big boob lover from Miami?

    My guess is you have a problem with lesbians.
    Because lesbian women are generally known to be pretty liberal.

  3. #53
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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Wow, was I ever shocked. What a horrible, ugly thing to say! In my opinion, we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings.
    This from a guy who just said in another thread, tough **** if grandma is taxed out of her home.

    Good grief, you're all over the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    And my mother, in Santa Barbara, a seventy-something widow living in a house that she and my father bought in the 1960s for about $20,000, in which I and my siblings grew up, and which is now worth nearly a million. It's not even a particularly large or fancy house, just one in a community where the cost of housing has skyrocketed. The OP's idea, as described so far, would, if implemented, eventually force my mother, along with many others like her, out of her own home that she and my father worked nearly all their lives to secure.

    It takes a special kind of evil to support or advocate, even in ignorance, such a policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Boo hoo, my millionaire mother has to pay taxes. Oh the humanity.

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Allow? It should be encouraged.

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    I hate to break the news to you, but everybody dies eventually.

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    This from a guy who just said in another thread, tough **** if grandma is taxed out of her home.

    Good grief, you're all over the map.
    Way to bring over a completely unrelated topic over to this thread. Yes, I think someone owning a million dollar home should have to pay tax on it. No, I don't care if it's a grandma.... a million dollars is a million dollars.

    And that has literally nothing to do with the OP. So as punishment for your getting out of line, consider this my last response to you on either thread.

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Every now and then, people show you their true colors.
    I spent the last few days riding around in a car with a lesbian photographer from Colorado and a Belgian lady.... needless to say, both were
    uber-liberal.... and needless to say, we got in to some political debates.

    We started to talk about food and energy. Typical of liberal opinion, they felt that the United States is way behind, that we're awful for being the champions of fossil fuels and genetically engineered food, and that we should be more like Europe in our support of non-modified food and alternative fuels.

    I calmly let them know my opinion: Liberals are influenced by European thought, and Europeans 1.) don't have many fossil fuels and 2.) don't have a lot of sunlight or land to farm. It's in Europe's self-interest to create a world of alternative energy and in which food production can be kept local.

    They had never heard this argument before, and I could tell it sparked thought in them. The lady from Belgium started to agree somewhat with me, but the lesbian from Colorado started to dig in her liberal heels.

    I then put the final nail in the coffin.... "If we didn't have cheap fossil fuels that we can easily transport, and if we didn't have these super-crops we have today, we could never support the population levels we have today. There is no way on earth we could ever feed the whole world like we are doing now.

    This argument cut deep, and neither one said anything for about 2 minutes.


    Their reply, when it finally came, shocked me. But I think it struck at the heart of how liberals think.

    "Sometimes we just need to let people die. It's for the good of the earth. Famine and death are part of how the earth regulates itself. I don't think we should help people in any other part of the world."

    Wow, was I ever shocked. What a horrible, ugly thing to say! In my opinion, we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings. I let them know that. And we were at an impasse.

    So I leave it to you. Do we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings to create enough food and energy to keep them alive, or should we switch to windmills and organic food so that Europe can be wealthier?

    Just an fyi - the lesbian is also a lady so I find the distinction you have made to be more of an anti-gay statement than anything else. In fact, both are women so I find that the use of the word "lady" is signifying that she has more credibility as a woman than the "lesbian" has credibility.

    As far as the topic at hand - GMO foods have been around for decades. The effects of GMO's do not show up overnight. I'm not keen on a company like Monsanto telling me that its GMO products are safe for me. Who pays into their research and who would benefit the most?

    I do agree with you that we are all responsible one way or another for our fellow human (and animal) companions, but that does not mean that we sally forth with flags waving to promote GMO's and to negate other ways to provide fuel for the continuing growth in the world population.

    I believe that the topics of food, energy, and other resources do not belong labeled as conservative vs. liberal. It doesn't matter what one believes; in the end these topics will end up (and are already) affecting everyone regardless of political slant.

    People die because the world selectively determines who receives the best resources and who does not. All the GMO food in the world will not feed the starving peoples in third world countries; the issue is working around the world to provide the best leadership so that people of all walks of life can live sustainable lives.

    I find it repulsive that any person would think that is it fine to let people die when not by their own choice (such as right to die supporters).
    Last edited by Sadie; 05-28-15 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Switching off fossil fuels will absolutely kill billions of people. What do you think tractors run on, buddy? Hint: it ain't butterfly farts.
    Eco-friendly vehicles making farms even greener - Environment - The Independent

    The tractor can produce 106 hp/142 kW, and runs on hydrogen stored in tanks, which New Holland believes makes it ideal for farmers.

    "Farmers are in a unique position to benefit from hydrogen technology," said a statement from the firm.

    "Unlike many people, they have the space to install alternative electricity generation systems, such as solar, wind, biomass or waste, and then store that power as hydrogen."

    With more stringent emissions standard on the way for heavy industrial vehicles in both Europe and North America, New Holland could be on to something, although it's not the only group to spot a gap in the market.
    Consumer interest growing in eco-friendly tractors and mowers - John Deere MachineFinder

    Being eco-friendly is only a positive if you have the right piece of equipment for your property, says one dealer in Virginia. If a small push mower or electric mower won't do the job for your property, some multi-purpose models are available that can be used in all seasons for pushing snow or pulling up stumps.
    Tractors New Holland TD5 - Models, technical data and characteristics

    Tier 3 compliant TD5 engines not only allow overall better working performance, but also dramatically reduce your end-of-the-year fuel bill. For example, the new TD5.90 is 10% more fuel efficient than the current model at maximum torque. This means for a tractor used for 500 hours / year a saving of 1062 litres each year. Just multiply this figure by the cost of litre of diesel and you will be astonished by the amount of savings you can achieve.
    https://www.deere.ca/en_US/corporate.../products.page

    Our 644K Hybrid Loader goes well beyond burning less fuel while reducing emissions. With its PowerTech™ 6.8-L IT4/Stage IIIB engine, hybrid-electric transmission, and brushless generator, the 644K boasts:
    Fuel consumption reductions up to 25%
    Operation at constant operator-selected speeds of 1200, 1500, or 1800 RPMs to reduce engine wear, noise levels, and fuel consumption
    Quiet operation, with in-cab levels at 68 dBA because the engine does not need to rev up and down
    Seems to me like strides are being made in an environmentally friendly direction... Do you believe that there is no alternative to fossil fuels? Do you believe the technology is moving too slowly? What's the exact point you're making here?
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  9. #59
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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Every now and then, people show you their true colors.

    I spent the last few days riding around in a car with a lesbian photographer from Colorado and a Belgian lady.... needless to say, both were uber-liberal.... and needless to say, we got in to some political debates.

    We started to talk about food and energy. Typical of liberal opinion, they felt that the United States is way behind, that we're awful for being the champions of fossil fuels and genetically engineered food, and that we should be more like Europe in our support of non-modified food and alternative fuels.

    I calmly let them know my opinion: Liberals are influenced by European thought, and Europeans 1.) don't have many fossil fuels and 2.) don't have a lot of sunlight or land to farm. It's in Europe's self-interest to create a world of alternative energy and in which food production can be kept local.

    They had never heard this argument before, and I could tell it sparked thought in them. The lady from Belgium started to agree somewhat with me, but the lesbian from Colorado started to dig in her liberal heels.

    I then put the final nail in the coffin.... "If we didn't have cheap fossil fuels that we can easily transport, and if we didn't have these super-crops we have today, we could never support the population levels we have today. There is no way on earth we could ever feed the whole world like we are doing now.

    This argument cut deep, and neither one said anything for about 2 minutes.


    Their reply, when it finally came, shocked me. But I think it struck at the heart of how liberals think.

    "Sometimes we just need to let people die. It's for the good of the earth. Famine and death are part of how the earth regulates itself. I don't think we should help people in any other part of the world."

    Wow, was I ever shocked. What a horrible, ugly thing to say! In my opinion, we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings. I let them know that. And we were at an impasse.

    So I leave it to you. Do we have a responsibility to our fellow human beings to create enough food and energy to keep them alive, or should we switch to windmills and organic food so that Europe can be wealthier?
    Well, we can't stop anyone from dying because everyone does it. If they have a will to live they should receive the help they require. My mother died of terminal cancer and if I knew then what I know now, I would have personally shortened her misery. My opinion about euthanasia changed after going through that.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Should we allow people to die?

    It is a false choice. Changing our energy use so suddenly that it would cause famine would be impossible, even if a policy decision was made to do so.

    Don't forget that we currently accept many deaths and much illness from air pollution, exposure to toxics and other causes directly related to fossil fuel use and production.

    I don't support letting people die, but we should encourage lower birth rates in general, and with the most urgency in places where the population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 05-28-15 at 02:16 PM.

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