View Poll Results: Is slavery always wrong all of the time?

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  • Yes. It's always wrong.

    34 77.27%
  • Forced labor is appropriate under some circumstances.

    8 18.18%
  • I can't decide. I'm a human tower of jello. Lead me around like the sheep i am.

    2 4.55%
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Thread: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

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    Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.

    Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.



    Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.


    That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:

    1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.

    2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?

    3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.

    4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.



    I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?

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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Slavery in and of itself is the process of marginalizing people and turning them into property to be sold, and used for someone else's benefit. Aside from being wildly immoral and unconstitutional, this is a first century idea that should stay in the first century.
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    I don't consider any of those slavery. 1,3, and 4 are just penal labor and are explicitly distinguished from slavery in the 13th Amendment for instance. I can support various forms of it depending on conditions.

    #2 seems to be just advocating reducing benefits and requiring some other sort of income than welfare.

    I can think of no occasion where actual slavery is not wrong all the time.
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.

    Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.



    Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.


    That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:

    1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.

    2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?

    3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.

    4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.



    I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
    1 it's called penal labour and I it already exist

    2 yes make the person into a literal slave for the government and take jobs from people who actually want them

    3 child labor laws

    4 once again penal labour
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    I don't consider any of those slavery. 1,3, and 4 are just penal labor and are explicitly distinguished from slavery in the 13th Amendment for instance. I can support various forms of it depending on conditions.

    #2 seems to be just advocating reducing benefits and requiring some other sort of income than welfare.

    I can think of no occasion where actual slavery is not wrong all the time.
    Slavery is any form of forced labor. Don't let semantics cloud your judgement.

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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    1 it's called penal labour and I it already exist

    2 yes make the person into a literal slave for the government and take jobs from people who actually want them

    3 child labor laws

    4 once again penal labour
    Penile labor is the same thing as slavery.

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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.

    Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.



    Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.


    That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:

    1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.

    2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?

    3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.

    4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.



    I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
    None of what you've outlined equates to justifiable slavery. The welfare queen is the only character among your scenarios who has not committed a crime. Therefore, why should she be "enslaved" simply because someone doesn't like the fact that she was deemed (repeatedly) eligible to receive those welfare benefits? All others you've characterized above should do their penance accordingly as the law dictates. Now, if that penance involves making small rocks out of big ones, pressing license plates, harvesting crops on the corporate farm, repaving roads or digging ditches, then so be it. That's part of forfeiting your right to live among a peaceful, law abiding society. But I wouldn't call this slavery. I'd call it imprisonment. No one owns them; they're just locked away from society for the crimes they've committed until time served (less a life sentence or the death penalty).

    Now, as a Black man do I believe slavery should never be allowed? I have to say yes. I'm against the ownership of anyone as property. However, I can see where indentured servitude can work because it's no different than being a contract employee only instead of being "hired" to perform a specific task (or tasks), you perform any task assigned to you for the agreed upon timeframe at the agreed upon price. Think Joseph, for example.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-27-15 at 08:09 PM.
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Slavery is any form of forced labor. Don't let semantics cloud your judgement.
    Slavery is more than forced labor. It's ownership of people as property to be sold, used and abused as the slave owner sees fit. I DO NOT subscribe to this not as a man and especially not as a Black man.
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    None of what you've outlined equates to justifiable slavery. The welfare queen is the only character among your scenarios who has not committed a crime. Therefore, why should she be "enslaved" simply because someone doesn't like the fact that she was deemed (repeatedly) eligible to receive those welfare benefits? All others you've characterized above should do their penance accordingly as the law dictates. Now, if that penance involves making small rock out of big ones, pressing license plates, harvesting crops on the corporate farm, repaving roads or digging ditches, then so be it. That's part of forfeiting your right to live among a peaceful, law abiding society. But I wouldn't call this slavery. I'd call it imprisonment. No one owns them; they're just locked away from society for the crimes they've committed.

    Now, as a Black man do I believe slavery should never be allowed? I have to say no. I'm against the ownership of anyone as property. However, I can see where indentured servitude can work because it's no different than being a contract employee only instead of being "hired" to perform a specific task (or tasks), you perform any task assigned to you for the agreed upon timeframe at the agreed upon price. Think Joseph, for example.
    Indentured servitude is another one I forgot about, but I agree it should have its place in society as well. Actually, it's a great alternative to welfare and illegal immigration.

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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Penile labor is the same thing as slavery.
    Quite true , I found it arbitrary that you mentioned that it could be used to justify using slave labor when it is already being utilized
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