View Poll Results: Is slavery always wrong all of the time?

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  • Yes. It's always wrong.

    34 77.27%
  • Forced labor is appropriate under some circumstances.

    8 18.18%
  • I can't decide. I'm a human tower of jello. Lead me around like the sheep i am.

    2 4.55%
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Thread: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    The Thirteenth Amendment, which outlawed slavery in this nation, contains a notable exception.

    1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
    2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


    In theory, I agree with this exception. I can envision a degree of criminality by which one would forfeit his humanity, and I would find no injustice in turning such a person, on proper conviction for such criminality, into a piece of property that may be sold and bought and in every way used as a slave. The Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit this.

    In practice, it probably wouldn't work. Someone of such a degree of criminality as to deserve slavery would probably be too dangerous to allow even that degree of freedom or access to other people.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Semantics. A prisoner working on a chain gang or hammering out license plates is not a free man. He's not working willingly. He can't come and go as he pleases.

    For all intents and purposes, he's a slave of the state.
    In this case, the distinction is important. A "slave" who's a "slave" because he broke the law probably deserves to be a slave. Someone who's born into it likely doesn't. We need to distinguish the two. Therefore, one's a prisoner on inmate, the other's a slave.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    IQ's should be taken into account as well...

  4. #34
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Under who's morals, ethics and values?

    If you were to say Society's, then yes it is wrong at this time.
    That doesn't mean that society will not change is own morals, ethics and values at some point in the future.


    If you were to say it was determined by an individual's or a group's collective morals, ethics and values, then yes it could be depending on their own beliefs.
    Moral relativism.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Under certain circumstances.

    I personally have a problem with our bankruptcy laws and our overall outlook in debt forgiveness. I personally feel that if a person is indebted to you, has no means to repay, and some spare time that they should work for the debt. Now this doesn't necessarily mean working directly for the owed but a court appointed job would suffice. In my opinion in many cases our bankruptcy laws are nothing short of legal theft.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.

    Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.



    Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.


    That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:

    1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.

    2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?

    3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.

    4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.



    I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
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  7. #37
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The Thirteenth Amendment, which outlawed slavery in this nation, contains a notable exception.

    1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
    2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.


    In theory, I agree with this exception. I can envision a degree of criminality by which one would forfeit his humanity, and I would find no injustice in turning such a person, on proper conviction for such criminality, into a piece of property that may be sold and bought and in every way used as a slave. The Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit this.

    In practice, it probably wouldn't work. Someone of such a degree of criminality as to deserve slavery would probably be too dangerous to allow even that degree of freedom or access to other people.
    I think this exception is meant to apply to forced labour by convicted criminals, which is not quite the same thing as slavery.

  8. #38
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    I think this exception is meant to apply to forced labour by convicted criminals, which is not quite the same thing as slavery.
    And even then the term "involuntary servitude" would be more applicable than slavery by any definition.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We're all indoctrinated to believe, especially here in America, that slavery is evil and wrong, and should be illegal 100% of the time no matter what.

    Not one to blindly follow what I'm taught, I thought about it for a while, and, while 99% of the time, slavery is wrong, I can make a case that sometimes, it's justified.



    Now let me make one point before people get their panties in a bunch: I'm not advocating race-based slavery (take off your USA glasses, slavery throughout most of human history has not been based on race). I believe that all people are created equal and that everyone should be given equal opportunity to succeed and to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.


    That said.... what happens when someone screws up? Here are some examples of people who I think could justifiably be forced to work for someone else:

    1.) The nonviolent career criminal. Rather than pay to house and feed him and put him through "crime school" (ie jail), he should be forced in to providing productive labor.

    2.) The welfare queen. Rather than give money away to people who would rather sit and collect money and live off the government tit, shouldn't they be forced to earn their keep like the rest of us?

    3.) The juvenile delinquent. Rather than put them through "crime school" (ie jail), some forced labor and discipline could do these kids good.

    4.) The white collar criminal. Run a ponzi scheme? Cheat on your taxes? Make them pick oranges in the California sun for a few years. That'll make white collar criminals think twice.



    I'll leave it at that for now. What are your thoughts?
    None of those are examples of slavery. In no instance is a person rendered down to property, but is simply asked to repay a debt.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is Slavery Always Wrong All of the Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    That's not true. Forced labor in prison is treated as an exception to slavery basically everywhere in the world. The dictionary definition is a system in which people are treated as property. People do not generally consider prisoners to be slaves. By practice, common usage, and definition, that is not slavery.
    I consider it slavery... to the government at least... what now? ad populam?

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