View Poll Results: Should pit bulls be banned?

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Thread: Should pit bulls be banned?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I disagree with you whole heartedly. Large dogs who are protective by nature have to be socialized. When they are young they have to be introduced to small dogs and strange people if they are going to be well adjusted when they grow. Had the woman who owned the dogs you had an issue with had socialized her dogs and had controlled them when you saw them there wouldn't have been any issue.
    Two problems with that. First of all, she lived in a nearby neighborhood, and the couple visited me after the attack. They said, and I have no reason to doubt them , that they'd had the dogs for about 7 years (female) and 8 years (male), have young kids, let them run loose in their little cul de sac, and they've never had a problem with other dogs or children. The man was a cop, the woman very nice, I sent them a bill for about $450, they hand delivered the check the NEXT DAY. They were RESPONSIBLE individuals.

    So what you're doing is assuming they failed as dog owners, which might be true, but if people like that can fail, they should not own dogs that have been BRED to attack and kill, and weigh 100 pounds. The bar for "good" dog owner is just too damn high, and if it's that high, they should be licensed and ownership restricted to the 1/100 or 1/1,000 families who have the time and skill to properly raise such a dog, and maintain that training for the life of the dogs.

    Second, the stats don't lie. Dogs BRED to fight and kill are responsible for the vast majority of deaths. They are doing the job nature intends them to do. Maybe half of those deaths are of the owners themselves, or their family. These dogs are like loaded shotguns. If we want people owning them, and not PERMANENTLY behind a 10 foot barbed wire fence, there should be something required to prove they can be the Dog Whisperer with these animals.

    Finally, the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" is nonsense IMO. Again, there are many millions more lab owners, millions of really ****ty lab owners. Their mistakes almost never result in the death or maiming of people by their dogs. The problem is dogs bred to fight and kill do a good job maiming and killing WHEN they go off.

  2. #62
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    I'm not going to go so far as to say ban them, as I am generally disinclined towards that mindset (gov banning anything we might hurt our pwecious widdle selves with), but I don't really like pits much.



    Yes, I've been around lots of pits, probably a couple hundred thanks to previous job in utilities. No, most of them weren't bad dogs.


    The ones that were bad though, were serious trouble.


    I owned a Pit mix once. Got him as a puppy for my son. My son and that dog grew up together, and he was a good dog. Thing is, we were kind of isolated down here on the farm during that time, much more so than usual as I was going through a period of being something of a hermit. The dog rarely saw any humans other than me and my son. He was totally devoted and loyal to us, never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards us... frankly I thought he was a wimp.

    Then he tried to eat my brother in law for patting my son on the shoulder. A few weeks later he tried to eat a couple youngsters on a 4 wheeler who were trespassing on my land. Soon he developed an aggressive desire to kill and eat all human beings other than me and my son. I never taught him to do this; my fault if any was not socializing him more as a young dog, but I NEVER taught him to be aggressive.

    He was scary strong too, like most pits.


    One time when working a pit broke his chain and came after me, jumping for my throat with his teeth wide open. I knocked him @ss over appetite, and he just kept coming back for more. I ended up having to kill him to keep him from killing me, and it was a near thing.


    I've known many other Pits that were quirky and could be set off by odd things, or who pressed their owner for dominance, or who were fine with adults but wanted to murder any children that came in sight.


    No I don't support banning them, but honestly I don't trust them much and don't really suggest people own one, unless they're very good with dogs and capable of being dominant over a strong dog.

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  3. #63
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Two problems with that. First of all, she lived in a nearby neighborhood, and the couple visited me after the attack. They said, and I have no reason to doubt them , that they'd had the dogs for about 7 years (female) and 8 years (male), have young kids, let them run loose in their little cul de sac, and they've never had a problem with other dogs or children. The man was a cop, the woman very nice, I sent them a bill for about $450, they hand delivered the check the NEXT DAY. They were RESPONSIBLE individuals.

    So what you're doing is assuming they failed as dog owners, which might be true, but if people like that can fail, they should not own dogs that have been BRED to attack and kill, and weigh 100 pounds. The bar for "good" dog owner is just too damn high, and if it's that high, they should be licensed and ownership restricted to the 1/100 or 1/1,000 families who have the time and skill to properly raise such a dog, and maintain that training for the life of the dogs.

    Second, the stats don't lie. Dogs BRED to fight and kill are responsible for the vast majority of deaths. They are doing the job nature intends them to do. Maybe half of those deaths are of the owners themselves, or their family. These dogs are like loaded shotguns. If we want people owning them, and not PERMANENTLY behind a 10 foot barbed wire fence, there should be something required to prove they can be the Dog Whisperer with these animals.

    Finally, the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" is nonsense IMO. Again, there are many millions more lab owners, millions of really ****ty lab owners. Their mistakes almost never result in the death or maiming of people by their dogs. The problem is dogs bred to fight and kill do a good job maiming and killing WHEN they go off.
    Paying the vet bill was responsible. Letting the dogs run loose was irresponsible. If you've read what I wrote, large dogs should have a fenced yard and when outside the fence should be on a leash. In addition, socialization would have solved the issue.

    Rottweilers were bred to drive cattle and protect the butcher after the cattle were driven to market. In Rottweil they were known as the butchers dog. Pit bulls have unfortunately been bred to fight but even at that, responsible dog owners contain their dogs, socialize them when they are young, watch them around children and keep them on a leash when not in the yard. That is being a responsible dog owner, regardless of breading. In addition, the bad owners and breeders have given pit bulls a bad reputation.
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Paying the vet bill was responsible. Letting the dogs run loose was irresponsible. If you've read what I wrote, large dogs should have a fenced yard and when outside the fence should be on a leash. In addition, socialization would have solved the issue.
    You're missing the point really. People are irresponsible, and I don't want people owning dogs that, WHEN they ARE irresponsible, have been bred to fight and to kill and put my life or my dogs' lives at risk. The stakes are too high, and what you're saying in essence is that different rules should apply to these dogs than to labs or other dogs not BRED to kill.

    And you're saying that socialization would have solved the issue, but you have no idea what training those dogs had when young or for the years from puppy to ages 7 and 8. I believe they'd never attacked anyone until they attacked us. I'm also confident my neighbor's pit mix never bit anyone till he mauled that girls leg at age 8.

    Rottweilers were bred to drive cattle and protect the butcher after the cattle were driven to market. In Rottweil they were known as the butchers dog. Pit bulls have unfortunately been bred to fight but even at that, responsible dog owners contain their dogs, socialize them when they are young, watch them around children and keep them on a leash when not in the yard. That is being a responsible dog owner, regardless of breading. In addition, the bad owners and breeders have given pit bulls a bad reputation.
    What's given pit bulls a bad name is the fact that they have been selectively bred to fight and kill, and often do kill their owners, members of their family, innocent bystanders, and when they don't kill them are very good at inflicting serious damage, as bred to do, and are single-handedly responsible for the majority of deaths and maulings by dogs.

    If you want to own them fine - get an insurance company to cover your liability, and prove you're willing and capable of handling a dangerous dog so it doesn't pose a deadly risk to others, prove it's been "socialized" properly, demonstrate that on a regular basis, show you've got a big yard, etc. I don't agree any yahoo white trash meth head hillbilly in my area can pick one up, chain it out in the yard, and all the rest of those who pass by are a broken chain from risking death by simply passing by. On a typical bike ride near the mountains, I might see 5 or 10 of those - I'm just prey to those dogs.

    It's a tragedy that our local shelter kills about 11,000 dogs a year, but I completely agree with their policy of not accepting for adoption any pit bull varieties - those that come in are put down.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Ban all pits... they are a menace.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
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  6. #66
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The dog rarely saw any humans other than me and my son. He was totally devoted and loyal to us, never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards us... frankly I thought he was a wimp.

    Then he tried to eat my brother in law for patting my son on the shoulder. A few weeks later he tried to eat a couple youngsters on a 4 wheeler who were trespassing on my land. Soon he developed an aggressive desire to kill and eat all human beings other than me and my son. I never taught him to do this; my fault if any was not socializing him more as a young dog, but I NEVER taught him to be aggressive.

    He was scary strong too, like most pits.
    Out of curiosity, what did you end up doing with the dog (or time bomb)?

  7. #67
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    My Grandfather use to own Border Collies. Intensely intelligent Dogs.

    The way they pick Border Collies out of the Litter as work dogs ( herding sheep ) is really interesting.

    They take the entire litter into a small fenced off area with a Sheep tied up in the corner

    They place the puppies on the opposite side of the Sheeps Pen and then let them go.

    The puppies that start charging towards the sheep are chosen for training to be work dogs and the rest are sold off as pets.

    Dogs of specific breeds have innate tendencies that have been passed down from decades or millennia of training. Pit Bulls are no exception.

  8. #68
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did you end up doing with the dog (or time bomb)?

    Well at first I tried to train him out of it. A friend of mine who was always very good with dogs tried to help me. We got nowhere. Even my buddy, who could befriend any dog, couldn't touch him. Only me and my son.


    I rigged an 80' runner (trolley) using an old salvaged crane cable between two oaks behind the house, put two collars on him and a 20' middleweight chain for a leash, and didn't let him loose anymore unless I had him on a leash and no one else was around, or in the house when we were home and not expecting company. This gave him a more than 100'x40' area to run and play in, so he wasn't tied down or anything... lots of dogs live in a fenced yard smaller than that.

    Despite my care, a couple years later he got loose one day. I was frankly terrified, worrying that he might have gone off somewhere and harmed or killed someone. I started wondering if I should have just had him put down earlier regardless of how loyal he was to me and my son. I went looking for him of course, and soon found him on the side of the road where he'd been hit by a car. He was already dead.

    I must confess to mixed feelings at that point. He'd been a good dog to me and my son, but he was damned dangerous to all other human beings. I have to admit I was mainly relieved that he hadn't hurt anyone and that I wasn't going to have to make the call to put him down for the sake of my neighbors' safety at that point.

    On reflection, I really should have put him down years earlier when I realized what a danger he was, and that he wasn't going to be trained out of it. That was a mistake on my part that could have cost someone their life... but it is hard to just kill a healthy and loyal dog that loves you and your child for what he might do. Still, I should have done it.


    At that point I resolved to never have a Pitt or pit-mix ever again.

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  9. #69
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    My Grandfather use to own Border Collies. Intensely intelligent Dogs.

    The way they pick Border Collies out of the Litter as work dogs ( herding sheep ) is really interesting.

    They take the entire litter into a small fenced off area with a Sheep tied up in the corner

    They place the puppies on the opposite side of the Sheeps Pen and then let them go.

    The puppies that start charging towards the sheep are chosen for training to be work dogs and the rest are sold off as pets.

    Dogs of specific breeds have innate tendencies that have been passed down from decades or millennia of training. Pit Bulls are no exception.
    We had a neighbor with one - he would "herd" a neighborhood kid out of the street when the child was walking home. Fascinating to watch. No idea how the dog learned the child was supposed to stay near the curb or in the grass, but the dog would keep the child in line for the entire 1/4 mile walk home, turn around and come back.

  10. #70
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    this is the same discussion as the gun debate, and just about every other political debate when it comes to "public safety." It is the fault of the owner, there is no sense in punishing responsible pit bull owners due to the inability of a select few to be responsible.
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