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Should pit bulls be banned?

Should pit bulls be banned?

  • Total voters
    52
radcen said:
Yes, and why is that? They are more popular with the irresponsible crowd because they have been bred to be more trainable to be aggressive and more apt to do what the irresponsible people want them to do. Irresponsible people choose this type of dog for a reason. There are bigger dogs. There are stronger dogs. This dog has the 'right' qualities combined to do what they want.[/QUOTE

I think it is because these dogs look mean, and certain people want a dog that looks mean. But the dogs do have the muscular make up to be dangerous when they do attack. I don't know if they are bred to be more aggressive. You may be right.
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CRUE CAB said:
The death and destruction they have caused. Not so much their fault, but it happens never the less.
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And given the possibility that whatever mental defect has been bred into these dogs, no matter how seldom it manifests itself, can cause the dog without provocation of any kind to attack a child or even its owner in the family, it just isn't worth the risk. And that has happened when the dog has been well trained to be social and is the lovable, affectionate dog that we all know a pit bull can be.
 
sawdust said:
I have had and currently have a number of Rottweilers. Everyone is trained, socialized, is kept in a large fenced yard, lives in the house, walks on a leash and has been a wonderful companion and family member. Even though I trusted them with children, I always watched them around children not because I worried but because it's responsible. A hundred thirty five pound dog can knock a child down by turning it's head unexpectedly. The old axiom is there are no bad dogs,only bad owners is true enough. Anybody who keeps a dog on a chain or lets them run loose is not a responsible dog owner and they only look for trouble.
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I voted to ban pit bulls, and in part it's because of an experience I had with a Rottweiler. Was walking my little dog - schnauzer - and passed a woman with two Rottweilers. After we're about 70-80 yards apart, she's in a small field and lets the dogs off to play. They both come racing towards us - I pick up my dog just before they get onto us, the female rottweiler bit my dog in the hindquarters, and my arm, and just hangs on, tugging both of us. The other was circling us. Not a bark, not a growl, nothing. The woman runs up, they release and just sit there like nothing happened. Calm as can be.

Point is that's their breeding at work. They'd simply done what they were bred to do - their genetic job. Of course, the woman tells me she's got kids, her dogs are loose all the time and get along with all other dogs, and the nearby children, never a problem ever!! Etc. All I know is I had two 100 pound dogs circling me and my dog, and they were BRED to kill one or both of us. She wasn't a bad owner, or if she was a bad owner, the bar is too damn high for someone not a trained dog trainer who is licensed to own such animals. Labs are the #1 dog in about 48 states - millions of "bad owners" and millions more labs than pit bulls. How many deadly attacks by labs each year?

Had a similar experience with a pit mix who lived next door. Years - no problems. One night I'm walking the dogs, get near the house, and the pit mix just races across the road and takes out the male dog - grabs it by the hindquarters and has him on the ground, ON MY LEASH. I'm six feet away. I yell, kick the dog, he lets go and just walks back to its yard like nothing happened. Not a bark, not a growl, from the pit mix or my dogs.

I told the owner - my neighbor - and he keeps the dog fenced almost all the time after that. But one day he lets the dogs out front while he's working in the garage and to use the bathroom and a 12 year old girl jogs by. The dog grabs her calf and does enough damage to require 3 surgeries to fix. The dog is 8yo at this point and it's the first time it's ever bitten anyone. So the dog is put down at this point. But my owner is a good guy, responsible, walks his dogs, etc.

So, sure, owners of pit bulls can be "bad owners" but the problem is the pit bull has been selectively bred to fight and kill. So when it attacks, it does immense damage. I see no reason for non-trained individuals to own such dogs. If they do, fine, require them to get a liability policy to cover their dogs. Require them to demonstrate competence handling a dog bred to fight and kill.
 
JasperL said:
I voted to ban pit bulls, and in part it's because of an experience I had with a Rottweiler. Was walking my little dog - schnauzer - and passed a woman with two Rottweilers. After we're about 70-80 yards apart, she's in a small field and lets the dogs off to play. They both come racing towards us - I pick up my dog just before they get onto us, the female rottweiler bit my dog in the hindquarters, and my arm, and just hangs on, tugging both of us. The other was circling us. Not a bark, not a growl, nothing. The woman runs up, they release and just sit there like nothing happened. Calm as can be.

Point is that's their breeding at work. They'd simply done what they were bred to do - their genetic job. Of course, the woman tells me she's got kids, her dogs are loose all the time and get along with all other dogs, and the nearby children, never a problem ever!! Etc. All I know is I had two 100 pound dogs circling me and my dog, and they were BRED to kill one or both of us. She wasn't a bad owner, or if she was a bad owner, the bar is too damn high for someone not a trained dog trainer who is licensed to own such animals. Labs are the #1 dog in about 48 states - millions of "bad owners" and millions more labs than pit bulls. How many deadly attacks by labs each year?

Had a similar experience with a pit mix who lived next door. Years - no problems. One night I'm walking the dogs, get near the house, and the pit mix just races across the road and takes out the male dog - grabs it by the hindquarters and has him on the ground, ON MY LEASH. I'm six feet away. I yell, kick the dog, he lets go and just walks back to its yard like nothing happened. Not a bark, not a growl, from the pit mix or my dogs.

I told the owner - my neighbor - and he keeps the dog fenced almost all the time after that. But one day he lets the dogs out front while he's working in the garage and to use the bathroom and a 12 year old girl jogs by. The dog grabs her calf and does enough damage to require 3 surgeries to fix. The dog is 8yo at this point and it's the first time it's ever bitten anyone. So the dog is put down at this point. But my owner is a good guy, responsible, walks his dogs, etc.

So, sure, owners of pit bulls can be "bad owners" but the problem is the pit bull has been selectively bred to fight and kill. So when it attacks, it does immense damage. I see no reason for non-trained individuals to own such dogs. If they do, fine, require them to get a liability policy to cover their dogs. Require them to demonstrate competence handling a dog bred to fight and kill.
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Run up to about 25 ft and the first round goes off in front of them. Second goes through closest ones head.
 
The problem is the breed appeals to morons, " thugs " and bad ass wannabes who think a friken Dog is a status symbol.

People with such a limited amount of intelligence to begin with now own something capable of locking onto a innocent kid
 
JasperL said:
So, sure, owners of pit bulls can be "bad owners" but the problem is the pit bull has been selectively bred to fight and kill. So when it attacks, it does immense damage. I see no reason for non-trained individuals to own such dogs. If they do, fine, require them to get a liability policy to cover their dogs. Require them to demonstrate competence handling a dog bred to fight and kill.
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Very well said.

The ownership requirments for a permit should also be extended to Cane Corsos, Presa Canarios, Dogo Agentinos and other exotic fighting breeds / meth lab and or crack shack guardians that are showing up here in increasing numbers. As a side note, two Cane Corsos recently killed an adult male in Michigan who was jogging on a rural road.

PoS said:
Pit bulls are not a specific breed- they are a set of characteristics. You want to ban that?
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Ban? no. Establish the need for a permit to own or breed any dogs with certain characteristics such as Pit Bulls, Presa Canarios, etc? Yes.

As Japser illustrated, no demonstrated competency, proof of liability etc, no permit.
 
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countryboy said:
My pit bull was "the sweetest dog on the planet" too, until he mauled my six month old daughter to death.
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JESUS!!!

I am SOOOOO sorry.

I am changing my earlier statement.


Say a county or a state banned pitbulls from their jurisdiction? How on Earth would the world measurably suffer from that banning (the question is rhetorical because the only rational answer is 'not at all')? These are non-sentient, subservient quadrupeds...not people.

I would have zero problem if pitbulls (or any animal that can easily kill a child) were banned from non-police/military ownership in my country...none at all.
There is ZERO need for a private citizen to own a deadly animal.
And save the 'protection' nonsense. There are tons of weapons that one can own (even in a non-gun society) that can protect a household at least as good as a pitbull.
 
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JasperL said:
I voted to ban pit bulls, and in part it's because of an experience I had with a Rottweiler. Was walking my little dog - schnauzer - and passed a woman with two Rottweilers. After we're about 70-80 yards apart, she's in a small field and lets the dogs off to play. They both come racing towards us - I pick up my dog just before they get onto us, the female rottweiler bit my dog in the hindquarters, and my arm, and just hangs on, tugging both of us. The other was circling us. Not a bark, not a growl, nothing. The woman runs up, they release and just sit there like nothing happened. Calm as can be.

Point is that's their breeding at work. They'd simply done what they were bred to do - their genetic job. Of course, the woman tells me she's got kids, her dogs are loose all the time and get along with all other dogs, and the nearby children, never a problem ever!! Etc. All I know is I had two 100 pound dogs circling me and my dog, and they were BRED to kill one or both of us. She wasn't a bad owner, or if she was a bad owner, the bar is too damn high for someone not a trained dog trainer who is licensed to own such animals. Labs are the #1 dog in about 48 states - millions of "bad owners" and millions more labs than pit bulls. How many deadly attacks by labs each year?

Had a similar experience with a pit mix who lived next door. Years - no problems. One night I'm walking the dogs, get near the house, and the pit mix just races across the road and takes out the male dog - grabs it by the hindquarters and has him on the ground, ON MY LEASH. I'm six feet away. I yell, kick the dog, he lets go and just walks back to its yard like nothing happened. Not a bark, not a growl, from the pit mix or my dogs.

I told the owner - my neighbor - and he keeps the dog fenced almost all the time after that. But one day he lets the dogs out front while he's working in the garage and to use the bathroom and a 12 year old girl jogs by. The dog grabs her calf and does enough damage to require 3 surgeries to fix. The dog is 8yo at this point and it's the first time it's ever bitten anyone. So the dog is put down at this point. But my owner is a good guy, responsible, walks his dogs, etc.

So, sure, owners of pit bulls can be "bad owners" but the problem is the pit bull has been selectively bred to fight and kill. So when it attacks, it does immense damage. I see no reason for non-trained individuals to own such dogs. If they do, fine, require them to get a liability policy to cover their dogs. Require them to demonstrate competence handling a dog bred to fight and kill.
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I disagree with you whole heartedly. Large dogs who are protective by nature have to be socialized. When they are young they have to be introduced to small dogs and strange people if they are going to be well adjusted when they grow. Had the woman who owned the dogs you had an issue with had socialized her dogs and had controlled them when you saw them there wouldn't have been any issue.
 
Fenton said:
The problem is the breed appeals to morons, " thugs " and bad ass wannabes who think a friken Dog is a status symbol.

People with such a limited amount of intelligence to begin with now own something capable of locking onto a innocent kid
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You are right...though there are obviously exceptions. But most owners of deadly animals/snakes/etc. I have known were either dumb as posts or clearly were mentally unbalanced. And they owned these dogs for the very reasons you mentioned - some sort of bizarre status symbol...'Hey look how cool I am - I have a dog that could rip your throat out anytime I want it to'. And they would brag about it.
 
sawdust said:
I disagree with you whole heartedly. Large dogs who are protective by nature have to be socialized. When they are young they have to be introduced to small dogs and strange people if they are going to be well adjusted when they grow. Had the woman who owned the dogs you had an issue with had socialized her dogs and had controlled them when you saw them there wouldn't have been any issue.
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Two problems with that. First of all, she lived in a nearby neighborhood, and the couple visited me after the attack. They said, and I have no reason to doubt them , that they'd had the dogs for about 7 years (female) and 8 years (male), have young kids, let them run loose in their little cul de sac, and they've never had a problem with other dogs or children. The man was a cop, the woman very nice, I sent them a bill for about $450, they hand delivered the check the NEXT DAY. They were RESPONSIBLE individuals.

So what you're doing is assuming they failed as dog owners, which might be true, but if people like that can fail, they should not own dogs that have been BRED to attack and kill, and weigh 100 pounds. The bar for "good" dog owner is just too damn high, and if it's that high, they should be licensed and ownership restricted to the 1/100 or 1/1,000 families who have the time and skill to properly raise such a dog, and maintain that training for the life of the dogs.

Second, the stats don't lie. Dogs BRED to fight and kill are responsible for the vast majority of deaths. They are doing the job nature intends them to do. Maybe half of those deaths are of the owners themselves, or their family. These dogs are like loaded shotguns. If we want people owning them, and not PERMANENTLY behind a 10 foot barbed wire fence, there should be something required to prove they can be the Dog Whisperer with these animals.

Finally, the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" is nonsense IMO. Again, there are many millions more lab owners, millions of really ****ty lab owners. Their mistakes almost never result in the death or maiming of people by their dogs. The problem is dogs bred to fight and kill do a good job maiming and killing WHEN they go off.
 
I'm not going to go so far as to say ban them, as I am generally disinclined towards that mindset (gov banning anything we might hurt our pwecious widdle selves with), but I don't really like pits much.



Yes, I've been around lots of pits, probably a couple hundred thanks to previous job in utilities. No, most of them weren't bad dogs.


The ones that were bad though, were serious trouble.


I owned a Pit mix once. Got him as a puppy for my son. My son and that dog grew up together, and he was a good dog. Thing is, we were kind of isolated down here on the farm during that time, much more so than usual as I was going through a period of being something of a hermit. The dog rarely saw any humans other than me and my son. He was totally devoted and loyal to us, never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards us... frankly I thought he was a wimp.

Then he tried to eat my brother in law for patting my son on the shoulder. A few weeks later he tried to eat a couple youngsters on a 4 wheeler who were trespassing on my land. Soon he developed an aggressive desire to kill and eat all human beings other than me and my son. I never taught him to do this; my fault if any was not socializing him more as a young dog, but I NEVER taught him to be aggressive.

He was scary strong too, like most pits.


One time when working a pit broke his chain and came after me, jumping for my throat with his teeth wide open. I knocked him @ss over appetite, and he just kept coming back for more. I ended up having to kill him to keep him from killing me, and it was a near thing.


I've known many other Pits that were quirky and could be set off by odd things, or who pressed their owner for dominance, or who were fine with adults but wanted to murder any children that came in sight.


No I don't support banning them, but honestly I don't trust them much and don't really suggest people own one, unless they're very good with dogs and capable of being dominant over a strong dog.
 
JasperL said:
Two problems with that. First of all, she lived in a nearby neighborhood, and the couple visited me after the attack. They said, and I have no reason to doubt them , that they'd had the dogs for about 7 years (female) and 8 years (male), have young kids, let them run loose in their little cul de sac, and they've never had a problem with other dogs or children. The man was a cop, the woman very nice, I sent them a bill for about $450, they hand delivered the check the NEXT DAY. They were RESPONSIBLE individuals.

So what you're doing is assuming they failed as dog owners, which might be true, but if people like that can fail, they should not own dogs that have been BRED to attack and kill, and weigh 100 pounds. The bar for "good" dog owner is just too damn high, and if it's that high, they should be licensed and ownership restricted to the 1/100 or 1/1,000 families who have the time and skill to properly raise such a dog, and maintain that training for the life of the dogs.

Second, the stats don't lie. Dogs BRED to fight and kill are responsible for the vast majority of deaths. They are doing the job nature intends them to do. Maybe half of those deaths are of the owners themselves, or their family. These dogs are like loaded shotguns. If we want people owning them, and not PERMANENTLY behind a 10 foot barbed wire fence, there should be something required to prove they can be the Dog Whisperer with these animals.

Finally, the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" is nonsense IMO. Again, there are many millions more lab owners, millions of really ****ty lab owners. Their mistakes almost never result in the death or maiming of people by their dogs. The problem is dogs bred to fight and kill do a good job maiming and killing WHEN they go off.
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Paying the vet bill was responsible. Letting the dogs run loose was irresponsible. If you've read what I wrote, large dogs should have a fenced yard and when outside the fence should be on a leash. In addition, socialization would have solved the issue.

Rottweilers were bred to drive cattle and protect the butcher after the cattle were driven to market. In Rottweil they were known as the butchers dog. Pit bulls have unfortunately been bred to fight but even at that, responsible dog owners contain their dogs, socialize them when they are young, watch them around children and keep them on a leash when not in the yard. That is being a responsible dog owner, regardless of breading. In addition, the bad owners and breeders have given pit bulls a bad reputation.
 
sawdust said:
Paying the vet bill was responsible. Letting the dogs run loose was irresponsible. If you've read what I wrote, large dogs should have a fenced yard and when outside the fence should be on a leash. In addition, socialization would have solved the issue.
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You're missing the point really. People are irresponsible, and I don't want people owning dogs that, WHEN they ARE irresponsible, have been bred to fight and to kill and put my life or my dogs' lives at risk. The stakes are too high, and what you're saying in essence is that different rules should apply to these dogs than to labs or other dogs not BRED to kill.

And you're saying that socialization would have solved the issue, but you have no idea what training those dogs had when young or for the years from puppy to ages 7 and 8. I believe they'd never attacked anyone until they attacked us. I'm also confident my neighbor's pit mix never bit anyone till he mauled that girls leg at age 8.

Rottweilers were bred to drive cattle and protect the butcher after the cattle were driven to market. In Rottweil they were known as the butchers dog. Pit bulls have unfortunately been bred to fight but even at that, responsible dog owners contain their dogs, socialize them when they are young, watch them around children and keep them on a leash when not in the yard. That is being a responsible dog owner, regardless of breading. In addition, the bad owners and breeders have given pit bulls a bad reputation.
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What's given pit bulls a bad name is the fact that they have been selectively bred to fight and kill, and often do kill their owners, members of their family, innocent bystanders, and when they don't kill them are very good at inflicting serious damage, as bred to do, and are single-handedly responsible for the majority of deaths and maulings by dogs.

If you want to own them fine - get an insurance company to cover your liability, and prove you're willing and capable of handling a dangerous dog so it doesn't pose a deadly risk to others, prove it's been "socialized" properly, demonstrate that on a regular basis, show you've got a big yard, etc. I don't agree any yahoo white trash meth head hillbilly in my area can pick one up, chain it out in the yard, and all the rest of those who pass by are a broken chain from risking death by simply passing by. On a typical bike ride near the mountains, I might see 5 or 10 of those - I'm just prey to those dogs.

It's a tragedy that our local shelter kills about 11,000 dogs a year, but I completely agree with their policy of not accepting for adoption any pit bull varieties - those that come in are put down.
 
Ban all pits... they are a menace.
 
Goshin said:
The dog rarely saw any humans other than me and my son. He was totally devoted and loyal to us, never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards us... frankly I thought he was a wimp.

Then he tried to eat my brother in law for patting my son on the shoulder. A few weeks later he tried to eat a couple youngsters on a 4 wheeler who were trespassing on my land. Soon he developed an aggressive desire to kill and eat all human beings other than me and my son. I never taught him to do this; my fault if any was not socializing him more as a young dog, but I NEVER taught him to be aggressive.

He was scary strong too, like most pits.
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Out of curiosity, what did you end up doing with the dog (or time bomb)?
 
My Grandfather use to own Border Collies. Intensely intelligent Dogs.

The way they pick Border Collies out of the Litter as work dogs ( herding sheep ) is really interesting.

They take the entire litter into a small fenced off area with a Sheep tied up in the corner

They place the puppies on the opposite side of the Sheeps Pen and then let them go.

The puppies that start charging towards the sheep are chosen for training to be work dogs and the rest are sold off as pets.

Dogs of specific breeds have innate tendencies that have been passed down from decades or millennia of training. Pit Bulls are no exception.
 
Cryptic said:
Out of curiosity, what did you end up doing with the dog (or time bomb)?
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Well at first I tried to train him out of it. A friend of mine who was always very good with dogs tried to help me. We got nowhere. Even my buddy, who could befriend any dog, couldn't touch him. Only me and my son.


I rigged an 80' runner (trolley) using an old salvaged crane cable between two oaks behind the house, put two collars on him and a 20' middleweight chain for a leash, and didn't let him loose anymore unless I had him on a leash and no one else was around, or in the house when we were home and not expecting company. This gave him a more than 100'x40' area to run and play in, so he wasn't tied down or anything... lots of dogs live in a fenced yard smaller than that.

Despite my care, a couple years later he got loose one day. I was frankly terrified, worrying that he might have gone off somewhere and harmed or killed someone. I started wondering if I should have just had him put down earlier regardless of how loyal he was to me and my son. I went looking for him of course, and soon found him on the side of the road where he'd been hit by a car. He was already dead.

I must confess to mixed feelings at that point. He'd been a good dog to me and my son, but he was damned dangerous to all other human beings. I have to admit I was mainly relieved that he hadn't hurt anyone and that I wasn't going to have to make the call to put him down for the sake of my neighbors' safety at that point.

On reflection, I really should have put him down years earlier when I realized what a danger he was, and that he wasn't going to be trained out of it. That was a mistake on my part that could have cost someone their life... but it is hard to just kill a healthy and loyal dog that loves you and your child for what he might do. Still, I should have done it.


At that point I resolved to never have a Pitt or pit-mix ever again.
 
Fenton said:
My Grandfather use to own Border Collies. Intensely intelligent Dogs.

The way they pick Border Collies out of the Litter as work dogs ( herding sheep ) is really interesting.

They take the entire litter into a small fenced off area with a Sheep tied up in the corner

They place the puppies on the opposite side of the Sheeps Pen and then let them go.

The puppies that start charging towards the sheep are chosen for training to be work dogs and the rest are sold off as pets.

Dogs of specific breeds have innate tendencies that have been passed down from decades or millennia of training. Pit Bulls are no exception.
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We had a neighbor with one - he would "herd" a neighborhood kid out of the street when the child was walking home. Fascinating to watch. No idea how the dog learned the child was supposed to stay near the curb or in the grass, but the dog would keep the child in line for the entire 1/4 mile walk home, turn around and come back.
 
this is the same discussion as the gun debate, and just about every other political debate when it comes to "public safety." It is the fault of the owner, there is no sense in punishing responsible pit bull owners due to the inability of a select few to be responsible.
 
iacardsfan said:
this is the same discussion as the gun debate, and just about every other political debate when it comes to "public safety." It is the fault of the owner, there is no sense in punishing responsible pit bull owners due to the inability of a select few to be responsible.
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While I'm not in favor of a full on ban on pitbulls, I feel compelled to point out that there is a major difference in the debate.


Guns are not self-propelled weapons systems with the capacity to independently target and attack the wrong targets when simply left unattended. Pit bulls are.
 
Goshin said:
While I'm not in favor of a full on ban on pitbulls, I feel compelled to point out that there is a major difference in the debate.


Guns are not self-propelled weapons systems with the capacity to independently target and attack the wrong targets when simply left unattended. Pit bulls are.
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Beat me to it. I was just about to say essentially the same thing.
 
sawdust said:
Paying the vet bill was responsible. Letting the dogs run loose was irresponsible. If you've read what I wrote, large dogs should have a fenced yard and when outside the fence should be on a leash. In addition, socialization would have solved the issue.

Rottweilers were bred to drive cattle and protect the butcher after the cattle were driven to market. In Rottweil they were known as the butchers dog. Pit bulls have unfortunately been bred to fight but even at that, responsible dog owners contain their dogs, socialize them when they are young, watch them around children and keep them on a leash when not in the yard. That is being a responsible dog owner, regardless of breading. In addition, the bad owners and breeders have given pit bulls a bad reputation.
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Pits or dogs that are considered pits accounted for 27 deaths in 2014. Not to minimize the deaths of 27 people or anything, but we aren't talking about a national crisis of scale here. I've been fostering pits for years and never once had one of them attack me, my husband, our kids, or anyone we know. And of the 27 deaths in 2014, you can trace almost all of them to irresponsible owners.
 
tres borrachos said:
Pits or dogs that are considered pits accounted for 27 deaths in 2014. Not to minimize the deaths of 27 people or anything, but we aren't talking about a national crisis of scale here. I've been fostering pits for years and never once had one of them attack me, my husband, our kids, or anyone we know. And of the 27 deaths in 2014, you can trace almost all of them to irresponsible owners.
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I understand your point, but the pit bull mix next to me mauled a 12 year old girl, first bite in 8 years for that dog.

And, again, there are 'irresponsible' owners of all breeds of dogs, but somehow pits top the list of deadly attacks. They are bred to fight and kill. And there are 100s of dog breed choices. I guess I'm not sure why we should allow anyone with a pulse and who can afford dog food to own a breed that is so inherently dangerous and that has been genetically engineered to be dangerous.

Finally, I can't find the stats, but deaths are only part of the story. There are thousands of maimed people, like my neighbor girl, who had three surgeries to repair her calf from a pit bull attack.
 
Goshin said:
While I'm not in favor of a full on ban on pitbulls, I feel compelled to point out that there is a major difference in the debate.


Guns are not self-propelled weapons systems with the capacity to independently target and attack the wrong targets when simply left unattended. Pit bulls are.
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If brought up correctly and not put in a position where it needs to defend itself, a pit bull will not cause harm to people. I had a pitbull for 8 years and it was the sweetest dog i have ever had to be completely honest.
 
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