View Poll Results: Should pit bulls be banned?

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Thread: Should pit bulls be banned?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    That is because pits and rotts can do more damage when they attack. Labs and collies attack too, its just when they do, the person walks away in most cases.
    Yes, labs and collies can attack... and some have done so... but it takes a great deal more to get them to that point, the numbers are far less than pits and rotts, and the damage is usually far less than pits and rotts. People who use their individual anecdotes to keep a blind eye to this are simply willfully head-in-the-sand naive.
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Your entire post is what supports the "bad owner" problem. You say she can't control the dog, you say the dog is lunging at small children and he has tried to "attack several" small children, yet your niece insists in keeping the dog who is obviously not in the right environment. Not all dogs can be around children - and that isn't limited to pit bulls. But you will "deal with it" until one of these attacks you say this dog makes results in a tragedy, and you will blame the dog for it.

    Regarding these attacks on small children, did anyone report this to the authorities, by the way? Because it's illegal to have a dangerous dog who is knowingly attacking children. And has she taken the dog to a behaviorist? What is your niece's expertise in dog handling specifically?


    See, this is part of the problem.

    No, my youngest niece is not a dog trainer or other canine expert. She grew up around dogs; she knows what most people know, which is to say not much.

    If she owned a Scotty or a Collie or a Lab this probably wouldn't be an issue. They're typically a lot more manageable.

    But it is a Pit so you're talking as if she's supposed to be The Dog Whisperer or else it is all her fault.

    Take the dog to a behaviorist? Oh yeah, no problem she's just rolling in money and could easily blow a few hundred on a dog shrink... um NOT.


    I've suggested that a new home be found for the dog. She wants to keep him. She does not live in my household, I cannot order her to do so.

    No I haven't reported the dog's behavior to the authorities. Tell me do you get on with your family? Well I have this thing about wanting to get along with mine. My middle and oldest nieces (who are the only ones with small children) have been warned about the dog. That's as far as I'm going at this point. No one has been injured so far, and I'm hoping it stays that way, but my control over this situation is highly limited.


    My youngest niece is not a "bad dog owner". She's an AVERAGE dog owner. Average dog owners should not own Pits or Rotts. JMO, but my opinion has already been heard and rejected.

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  3. #93
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    That is because pits and rotts can do more damage when they attack. Labs and collies attack too, its just when they do, the person walks away in most cases.


    Yessir, and that is why Pits and Rotts are more of a problem than labs and collies. That, plus the way so many owners either deliberately make them vicious, or don't keep them under control.

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  4. #94
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    See, this is part of the problem.

    No, my youngest niece is not a dog trainer or other canine expert. She grew up around dogs; she knows what most people know, which is to say not much.

    If she owned a Scotty or a Collie or a Lab this probably wouldn't be an issue. They're typically a lot more manageable.

    But it is a Pit so you're talking as if she's supposed to be The Dog Whisperer or else it is all her fault.

    Take the dog to a behaviorist? Oh yeah, no problem she's just rolling in money and could easily blow a few hundred on a dog shrink... um NOT.


    I've suggested that a new home be found for the dog. She wants to keep him. She does not live in my household, I cannot order her to do so.

    No I haven't reported the dog's behavior to the authorities. Tell me do you get on with your family? Well I have this thing about wanting to get along with mine. My middle and oldest nieces (who are the only ones with small children) have been warned about the dog. That's as far as I'm going at this point. No one has been injured so far, and I'm hoping it stays that way, but my control over this situation is highly limited.


    My youngest niece is not a "bad dog owner". She's an AVERAGE dog owner. Average dog owners should not own Pits or Rotts. JMO, but my opinion has already been heard and rejected.
    You completely missed the point. Yes, your niece is a bad dog owner. She has no business having a dog she can't control around children, who according to you are being attacked by this dog. She wants to keep him. So? She shouldn't keep him. And when something happens, you will come on here and say that it's the dog's fault. Now you're saying the dog never injured anyone, which is not the case if the dog is actually attacking. You're contradicting yourself.

    The dog is not the right fit. The dog belongs with someone who knows how to handle the dog and not let the dog attack children. If she can not control the dog, and the dog attacks children, and she has done nothing about it, she's irresponsible. The dog needs to be rehomed with someone else. It isn't the dog's fault that's he around children and according to you, he doesn't want to be around children. My husband and I had to rehome an Alaskan Malamute who we had since our college days because the dog was stressed by our children, and once went after my oldest son when he was a toddler and toddler near the dog. That's what responsible dog owners do, for the sake of themselves, others, and the dog.

    Not all dogs adore children, and this one clearly doesn't. The dog needs to be rehomed, and if she choses not to do it and get a dog that is more suited to her physical abilities and her lifestyle, then yes, she is a bad dog owner.
    Last edited by tres borrachos; 06-03-15 at 02:22 PM.
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  5. #95
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You completely missed the point. Yes, your niece is a bad dog owner. She has no business having a dog she can't control around children, who according to you are being attacked by this dog. She wants to keep him. So? She shouldn't keep him. And when something happens, you will come on here and say that it's the dog's fault. Now you're saying the dog never injured anyone, which is not the case if the dog is actually attacking. You're contradicting yourself.

    The dog is not the right fit. The dog belongs with someone who knows how to handle the dog and not let the dog attack children. If she can not control the dog, and the dog attacks children, and she has done nothing about it, she's irresponsible. The dog needs to be rehomed with someone else. It isn't the dog's fault that's he around children and according to you, he doesn't want to be around children. My husband and I had to rehome an Alaskan Malamute who we had since our college days because the dog was stressed by our children, and once went after my oldest son when he was a toddler and toddler near the dog. That's what responsible dog owners do, for the sake of themselves, others, and the dog.

    Not all dogs adore children, and this one clearly doesn't. The dog needs to be rehomed, and if she choses not to do it and get a dog that is more suited to her physical abilities and her lifestyle, then yes, she is a bad dog owner.

    Look, Mrs Borrachos... damn where do I begin.


    I say "attacked" and you say I am contradicting myself when I say no one has been injured. Very well, perhaps I should have more accurately said "the dog has lunged towards children in an aggressive manner that appeared to be an attempt to attack, but was prevented from completing same by being on a leash with a control collar."


    In that sense, I suppose my youngest niece has indeed kept him under control.... as far as what he's DONE, but not his behavior.

    The dog has not been around children much until very recently. My youngest niece, the dog's owner, has none.

    Because the dog behaves towards HER in an adorable, friendly, fur-baby like manner, SHE tends to think of him as harmless... an illusion many dog owners harbor of their canine. When I was doing utility work many times a homeowner would say to me "the dog will not bite." I'd look at them in mock-horror and say "You pulled all his TEETH??" Shocked, they'd deny this vehemently, to which I'd reply "If he has teeth, he may bite." That is true of any dog under the right circumstances.... but some dogs are more prone to it than others.

    She doesn't want to believe her fur-baby is potentially dangerous because she is emotionally attached and he doesn't act dangerous TO HER. This type of mentality is common among most dog owners to some degree. She's also just gone through an ugly divorce and is a bit emotionally fragile, and is clinging to her attachment to the dog. Yeah I think I should go right out and kick that out from under her, don't you? (irony)

    But NOW she's moved back into the area where the rest of the family lives (four households in walking distance and a fifth 5 minutes away), and my other two nieces both have children ranging from toddlers and up. This is where we've started running into problems. My youngest niece is trying to fix it by gradually socializing the dog to deal with children. She thinks it is going to work.

    I don't. The dog is too twitchy and paranoid. I don't know if that is because of his circumstances before he was "rescued" or something her ex did to him, but he is prone to overreact to any sudden stimuli, and being a pitt that can be a serious matter.

    Not my dog, not my call. I can render my opinion, but that's all.


    You can call her a "bad dog owner" if you wish. In my experience she is very average in her self-inflicted illusion that HER fur-baby is no real threat to anyone.

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  6. #96
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Look, Mrs Borrachos... damn where do I begin.


    I say "attacked" and you say I am contradicting myself when I say no one has been injured. Very well, perhaps I should have more accurately said "the dog has lunged towards children in an aggressive manner that appeared to be an attempt to attack, but was prevented from completing same by being on a leash with a control collar."


    In that sense, I suppose my youngest niece has indeed kept him under control.... as far as what he's DONE, but not his behavior.

    The dog has not been around children much until very recently. My youngest niece, the dog's owner, has none.

    Because the dog behaves towards HER in an adorable, friendly, fur-baby like manner, SHE tends to think of him as harmless... an illusion many dog owners harbor of their canine. When I was doing utility work many times a homeowner would say to me "the dog will not bite." I'd look at them in mock-horror and say "You pulled all his TEETH??" Shocked, they'd deny this vehemently, to which I'd reply "If he has teeth, he may bite." That is true of any dog under the right circumstances.... but some dogs are more prone to it than others.

    She doesn't want to believe her fur-baby is potentially dangerous because she is emotionally attached and he doesn't act dangerous TO HER. This type of mentality is common among most dog owners to some degree. She's also just gone through an ugly divorce and is a bit emotionally fragile, and is clinging to her attachment to the dog. Yeah I think I should go right out and kick that out from under her, don't you? (irony)

    But NOW she's moved back into the area where the rest of the family lives (four households in walking distance and a fifth 5 minutes away), and my other two nieces both have children ranging from toddlers and up. This is where we've started running into problems. My youngest niece is trying to fix it by gradually socializing the dog to deal with children. She thinks it is going to work.

    I don't. The dog is too twitchy and paranoid. I don't know if that is because of his circumstances before he was "rescued" or something her ex did to him, but he is prone to overreact to any sudden stimuli, and being a pitt that can be a serious matter.

    Not my dog, not my call. I can render my opinion, but that's all.


    You can call her a "bad dog owner" if you wish. In my experience she is very average in her self-inflicted illusion that HER fur-baby is no real threat to anyone.
    Okay, let me start with this. You said the dog attacked children - I didn't say it. When you say a dog attacks, you need to understand what that means. Either the dog attacks, or it doesn't. There is no in between. If the dog is attacking children, and it is allowed to continue to be around children, then everyone who allows that to happen is irresponsible. It isn't the dog's fault.

    I am sorry, but the emotional issues she has and her divorce and all of that is irrelevant. The dog neither knows nor cares about all of that. Once again, if the dog maims someone, or kills someone, everyone involved will say it's the dog's fault, when the reality is the dog does not belong in that environment and doesn't belong around children, and the excuse for enabling the bad situation is her being emotionally fragile.

    That is what makes a bad owner. When people say there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, they aren't just talking about the asshole thugs in inner city Detroit. They're talking about the families that have these dogs and allow them to be around children because they're too sad to rehome them. If you research the deaths caused by pit breed dogs in the last 10 years or so, you'll see most of them were family dogs who attacked either family members or people close to the family who were visiting. These dogs can be very loving and most are, but what you have described is a dog who is a known problem, and you're justifying your niece having the dog.

    A good owner can handle even the toughest pit or pit mix. A bad owner doesn't mean the owner can't handle another breed of dog. A bad owner is one who has no business owning a particular dog and refuses to acknowledge that she is in way over her head and who is putting the dog, her family, and everyone she knows at risk. A pit isn't for everyone, and nobody says a pit is for everyone.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Okay, let me start with this. You said the dog attacked children - I didn't say it. When you say a dog attacks, you need to understand what that means. Either the dog attacks, or it doesn't. There is no in between.

    I disagree. If a dog lunges at me in an apparent attempt to bite, he attacked me... whether the bite was successfully completed or not. Many dogs have attacked me; few have succeeded in biting me. But in any case I am sorry if there was confusion, thus my explanation that I was referring to what I perceived as "attempts to attack".







    If the dog is attacking children, and it is allowed to continue to be around children, then everyone who allows that to happen is irresponsible. It isn't the dog's fault.

    I have no control over this. It is not my dog, nor is it in my household. I can advise and persuade and that is all.



    I am sorry, but the emotional issues she has and her divorce and all of that is irrelevant. The dog neither knows nor cares about all of that. Once again, if the dog maims someone, or kills someone, everyone involved will say it's the dog's fault, when the reality is the dog does not belong in that environment and doesn't belong around children, and the excuse for enabling the bad situation is her being emotionally fragile.

    That is what makes a bad owner. When people say there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, they aren't just talking about the asshole thugs in inner city Detroit. They're talking about the families that have these dogs and allow them to be around children because they're too sad to rehome them. If you research the deaths caused by pit breed dogs in the last 10 years or so, you'll see most of them were family dogs who attacked either family members or people close to the family who were visiting. These dogs can be very loving and most are, but what you have described is a dog who is a known problem, and you're justifying your niece having the dog.

    A good owner can handle even the toughest pit or pit mix. A bad owner doesn't mean the owner can't handle another breed of dog. A bad owner is one who has no business owning a particular dog and refuses to acknowledge that she is in way over her head and who is putting the dog, her family, and everyone she knows at risk. A pit isn't for everyone, and nobody says a pit is for everyone.

    "Bad owner" sounds a lot like "bad person", which is perhaps why this assertion runs into resistance. "Owner who is in over her head and doesn't realize it" would be cumbersome but more accurate and less accusatory.

    And it is also more or less what I've been saying in the thread, or attempting to say: I don't advocate banning pit bulls as a breed, but I wish everyone was more fully aware of the potential dangers and realized that owning a pit bull is not for everyone, and you shouldn't own a dog if you're not sure you can manage him safely.

    When it comes to Pitts, I am inclined by my experiences to err on the side of "don't".

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  8. #98
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I disagree. If a dog lunges at me in an apparent attempt to bite, he attacked me... whether the bite was successfully completed or not. Many dogs have attacked me; few have succeeded in biting me. But in any case I am sorry if there was confusion, thus my explanation that I was referring to what I perceived as "attempts to attack".










    I have no control over this. It is not my dog, nor is it in my household. I can advise and persuade and that is all.






    "Bad owner" sounds a lot like "bad person", which is perhaps why this assertion runs into resistance. "Owner who is in over her head and doesn't realize it" would be cumbersome but more accurate and less accusatory.

    And it is also more or less what I've been saying in the thread, or attempting to say: I don't advocate banning pit bulls as a breed, but I wish everyone was more fully aware of the potential dangers and realized that owning a pit bull is not for everyone, and you shouldn't own a dog if you're not sure you can manage him safely.

    When it comes to Pitts, I am inclined by my experiences to err on the side of "don't".
    Bad owner and bad person aren't the same thing. I think that's what you are resisting.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Bad owner and bad person aren't the same thing. I think that's what you are resisting.


    I am in part resisting laying it ALL at the feet of the owner. Some breeds are more dangerous than others. Some people are more aware of this than others. Some are in denial.

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    Re: Should pit bulls be banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yessir, and that is why Pits and Rotts are more of a problem than labs and collies. That, plus the way so many owners either deliberately make them vicious, or don't keep them under control.
    I absolutely agree with you that their strength and ability when attacking make it a bigger problem than other breeds. I was only bringing up the fact that other dogs bite, pits and rottys maul. I know quite a few people who have been bitten at some point by dogs, very few by pits, but they needed a band aid not an ambulance.
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