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Iraq-Afghanistan - Pottery Barn Rule- You breaks it you (buy) fix it?

Iraq-Afghanistan - Pottery Barn Rule- You breaks it you (buy) fix it

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JANFU

JANFU

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Iraq and Afghanistan are clear examples of the failure of this discredited policy.
The Military is incapable of nation building.
In both cases, after Saddam was done, pack and leave. After OBL escaped from Tora Bora due to complete and utter stupidity, an epic Military blunder. Pack up, and possibly leave some behind.
In each case let them, the local populations, complete with the entire ethnic hatred they have sort the mess out.

Battle for Tora Bora: How Osama Bin Laden Slipped From Our Grasp | The New Republic

Meanwhile, the additional forces that Crumpton and Berntsen were requesting were certainly available. There were around 2,000 U.S. troops in or near the Afghan theater at the time. At the U.S. airbase known as K2 in Uzbekistan were stationed some 1,000 soldiers of the 10th Mountain Division, whose specialty is fighting in harsh terrain. Hundreds of those soldiers had already deployed to Bagram Air Force Base, 40 miles north of Kabul. In addition, 1,200 Marines were stationed at Forward Operating Base Rhino, near Kandahar, from the last week of November onward. Brigadier General James Mattis, the commander of the Marines in the Afghan theater, reportedly asked to send his men into Tora Bora, but his request was turned down. In the end, there were more journalists—about 100, according to Nic Robertson of CNN and Susan Glasser of The Washington Post, who both covered the battle—in and around Tora Bora than there were Western soldiers.
Yet, when Crumpton called General Tommy Franks to ask for more troops, Franks pushed back. The general, who had overall control of the Tora Bora operation, pointed out that the light-footprint approach—U.S. reliance on local proxies—had already succeeded in overthrowing the Taliban, and he argued that it would take time to get more U.S. troops to Tora Bora.
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Explain again how Afghanistand and Iraq were doing just fine before there was foreign intervention?
 
LeoVlaming said:
then you agree Iraq and Afghanistan were "broken" longtime ago, and not by foreign intervention?
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Are they as screwed today as they were before the War?
But that is not the point of the OP now is it?
 
JANFU said:
Are they as screwed today as they were before the War?
But that is not the point of the OP now is it?
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One can argue whether things are better or worse in Afghanistan and Iraq today than 15 years ago. The situation is fluid. What is undeniable is that the intervention in both countries created a series of opportunities for positive developments that didn't exist before. whether these opportunities will be realizec remains to be seen but looks doubtful. That is mostly the result of self-destructive tendencies in both countries.
 
LeoVlaming said:
One can argue whether things are better or worse in Afghanistan and Iraq today than 15 years ago. The situation is fluid. What is undeniable is that the intervention in both countries created a series of opportunities for positive developments that didn't exist before. whether these opportunities will be realizec remains to be seen but looks doubtful. That is mostly the result of self-destructive tendencies in both countries.
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The Op is about getting in, getting as many out, possible a small number of troops left in place. Nation building did not and does not work in these countries.
10's of thousands dead 4 Trillion plus and rising
 
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