View Poll Results: Can a nation tax its way to prosperity?

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  • Yes

    7 11.48%
  • No

    44 72.13%
  • Other

    10 16.39%
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Thread: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Cool blog link, bro.
    It pulls the numbers out of that book listed at the bottom. Anyways, it's your claim, and it doesn't appear to be true, so lets see your source.

  2. #62
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Happy July 4, tuhaybey!

    Putting the brakes on spending is also very important, IMO. When people are taxed more by the government, they have fewer dollars available to spend on everything else. For many, crunch time has already arrived for the middle class - what's going to happen if more of their money is taken in taxes? We are already seeing businesses like restaurants and other retail establishments in this area close, and I feel it's likely to continue. Sad....
    Generally speaking, the middle class does better with higher taxing and spending. The taxes tend to hit the rich a bit more heavily and the spending tends to benefits the middle class a bit more heavily. Keep in mind, the money doesn't actually disappear from the economy. The government takes it as taxes and spends it, then whoever it paid- construction workers, teachers, social security beneficiaries, etc.- buys things with the money.

  3. #63
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    It pulls the numbers out of that book listed at the bottom.

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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    That seems to match what I said, no?

    Again:

    Most years in the last 1800s were under 2%. In 1892 we hit 7.5% and in 1895 we hit 10%. But, those good years were interspersed with some very bad years, like 1894 when we lost 4.7% and whatnot.

    During FDR's term, we over 5% nine years, over 10% four years, and over 17% three years. No other president ever broke 10% and FDR did it four times.

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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Generally speaking, the middle class does better with higher taxing and spending. The taxes tend to hit the rich a bit more heavily and the spending tends to benefits the middle class a bit more heavily. Keep in mind, the money doesn't actually disappear from the economy. The government takes it as taxes and spends it, then whoever it paid- construction workers, teachers, social security beneficiaries, etc.- buys things with the money.
    I thought social security benefits were just slowly returning money that the recipients paid in while they were working, and had it taken out by the government whether or not they wanted it taken. Not that it is bad, because with SS, people at least have some money coming in after retirement, since too few have any savings accumulated on their own. In other words, that was never government's money in the first place, but unfortunately they have taken it and used it for many other things over the years, and have not made good on the IOU's they gave in return for the cash.

  6. #66
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    In 1892 we hit 7.5% and in 1895 we hit 10%. But, those good years were interspersed with some very bad years, like 1894 when we lost 4.7% and whatnot.
    1891-224027
    1892-245757

    7.5 percent? How?

    1894-227131
    1895-254552

    10 percent? How?

    1893-233857
    1894-227131

    4.7 percent? How?

  7. #67
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Ignoring that per capita is more meaningful

    Ignoring that the 70s are note "late"

    Measure from 1932 to 1960
    Notice a more than tripling.


    US Real GDP by Year


    Next

  8. #68
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    1891-224027
    1892-245757

    7.5 percent? How?

    1894-227131
    1895-254552

    10 percent? How?

    1893-233857
    1894-227131

    4.7 percent? How?
    I mean, we didn't really have good official records back in those days. These are all estimates, so we'd expect the numbers would be slightly different from one source to another. You don't say what your source is, but it is in internationalized dollars, so we would certainly not expect that to be the same as my numbers, which were in US dollars. Internationalized dollars apply cost of living adjustments across countries to normalize it internationally, so, for example, if the cost of living went way up in some other country, that would change the GDP growth reflected in the chart for the US.

    But, it doesn't really matter which source we use. They're about the same. For example, for 1895, (254 - 227) / 227 = 11.9%. Certainly not up near FDR's best years.

    Also, more fundamentally, obviously the economy we're in today is a radically different world than we were in in the 1800s, so that seems kind of silly to look back that far to see what level of taxes work best. Presumably what worked then would have no bearing on what works in the modern world. All the issues involved are completely different.

  9. #69
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Ignoring that the 70s are note "late"
    The chart starts there.

    "note"

  10. #70
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The chart starts there.

    "note"

    Yay, a typo.

    I noticed you ignored the #s

    Your white flag is accepted.

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