View Poll Results: Can a nation tax its way to prosperity?

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  • Yes

    7 11.48%
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    44 72.13%
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    10 16.39%
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Thread: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

  1. #11
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Consider the following quote from Winston Churchill:
    "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

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    It is worse. If the nation trying that will go down, while the man will stay standing.

  2. #12
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That's not true at all. It might suprise you that one of our most liberal Senators Bernie Sanders wants to spend money to update our infrastructure, the problem though is that it would create jobs and the GOP is dead set against it. It took JFK to get the space program going, which if you think about it, the result have been millions of jobs.
    Good for Bernie Sanders - now, what part of the bloated federal budget does the good Senator want to reduce or displace in order to up the capital improvements he wants to promote?

    As for JFK, I would agree - he was instrumental, as was the military. JFK was hardly your typical liberal - in fact, he supported tax cuts along the way. And you fail to note that it was Obama, another liberal, who has basically shuttered the space program - he'd rather spend billions of windmills and solar panels. So much for that argument.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  3. #13
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    So the tax money President used to build the Federal interstate highway system didn't make the U.S. much more properous? The tax money spent on the space programs didn't make the U.S. more prosperous?
    Taxation is necessary for a civil society but that doesn't mean that excess taxation makes a nation prosperous. You have made the error in logic described below.

    False Dilemma

    Definition:

    A limited number of options (usually two) is given, while in reality there are more options. A false dilemma is an illegitimate use of the "or" operator.
    Putting issues or opinions into "black or white" terms is a common instance of this fallacy.
    The Logical Fallacies: False Dilemma
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  4. #14
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good for Bernie Sanders - now, what part of the bloated federal budget does the good Senator want to reduce or displace in order to up the capital improvements he wants to promote?

    As for JFK, I would agree - he was instrumental, as was the military. JFK was hardly your typical liberal - in fact, he supported tax cuts along the way. And you fail to note that it was Obama, another liberal, who has basically shuttered the space program - he'd rather spend billions of windmills and solar panels. So much for that argument.
    Look back at how they all bounced their duties and responsibilities forwards
    Cut have been made to support programs, but the Hawks on both sides are playing BS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/op...l?ref=politics

    This shell game dates to the compromise in 2011 that was supposed to force lawmakers to negotiate deficit reduction measures by threatening them with draconian across-the-board cuts in military and nonmilitary programs. The cuts were never supposed to take effect, especially in military programs; it was assumed that members of Congress would be forced to negotiate smarter deficit reductions. They never did, so in 2013 a sequester went into effect, with cuts that have taken a toll on programs that assist the most vulnerable Americans, including the elderly, the disabled and impoverished families with children.
    The Pentagon says it has been hurt by the sequester, too. But military hawks from both parties did not want to actually cut military spending. And Republicans did not want to invest in domestic programs or consider new taxes to cover costs, so the taxpayers were left with a charade.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  5. #15
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Wise man, that Winston Churchill - too bad they don't make Churchillian politicians these days.
    They do. They just can't get elected because they don't tell the masses what they want to hear.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

  6. #16
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Consider the following quote from Winston Churchill:
    "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

    Yes

    No

    Other
    You cannot tax a nation into prosperity, but neither can you 'not tax' a nation into prosperity. Wealth distribution does not work, and the human species is too selfish to do things voluntarily on a large enough scale. Unfortunately, we seem incapable of finding a happy medium.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

  7. #17
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    So the tax money President used to build the Federal interstate highway system didn't make the U.S. much more properous? The tax money spent on the space programs didn't make the U.S. more prosperous?
    I think the space program, while way cool, is questionable.

    The Interstate Highway System, however, is probably the biggest "bang for the buck" public improvement in the history of mankind.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020

  8. #18
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good for Bernie Sanders - now, what part of the bloated federal budget does the good Senator want to reduce or displace in order to up the capital improvements he wants to promote?...
    Military spending. The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Sen. Bernie Sanders Exposes Bloated Military and Intelligence Spending

    Regardless, a monetarily sovereign nation doesn't have to cut spending in one area to increase spending in another. The new dollars created for infrastructure are backed by the value of the infrastructure over time. And for every worker we put to work improving our infrastructure, there is one less person on unemployment/welfare or prison, so the cost is fairly negligible.

    Do you really believe that the US or Canada would be a richer country if our governments didn't create infrastructure or educate our workforce population?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #19
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Consider the following quote from Winston Churchill:
    "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

    Yes

    No

    Other
    It's not a matter so much of how high the taxes are (as long as they're not too high or too low), but how the taxes are spent. As long as the taxes are spent on improving the nation - on things like roads, education, protection, and keeping the people healthy so they can work longer - then those taxes DO make the nation stronger and more prosperous. That's why ALL the first-world democracies (including America) have relatively high effective tax rates...

    ...because those relatively high effective tax rates are the price of admission to life in a first-world democracy. If you don't want to pay those taxes, go somewhere else.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #20
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    Re: Can A Nation Tax Itself Into Prosperity?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Seriously? That's your angle here? There isn't a conservative around, including Churchill, who's against taxation used to build and maintain infrastructure and on research and development. That's not, however, what liberals have in mind when they talk of raising taxes. With liberals, it's all wealth redistribution and making life easier for the poor and lazy.
    too bad that's not what the question asked.

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