View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #971
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And they can be forced into being someone else's property. That property is defended and upheld through contracts, law, conventions, etc. What you feel about that is irrelevant.
    They can not. However, like i said, if you accept that people can be property and that the property can be transferred then any forced transfer would amount to robbery and thus the claims of the slave owner would be forfeit. If however you believe they are property and that it can not be transferred then again the claim is forfeit as they can never own the object in question. The only way you still believe they are property is if you believe they were unowned property before the slave owners claims, and that would lead to me asking you how exactly you believe property works. I still think you believe all claims are legitimate because the state recognizes them, sorry. If that is the case then your argument is circular.

  2. #972
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They can not.
    Of course they can. Would you like me to start citing examples of just that being done?

    However, like i said, if you accept that people can be property and that the property can be transferred then any forced transfer would amount to robbery and thus the claims of the slave owner would be forfeit.
    Not every forced transfer is robbery. Taxes for example are not robbery. You are free to move to a nation without them or with an inability to enforce them. I hear Somalia is kind of nice. However, this is entirely irrelevant to the notion of whether people can be made into property.

    If however you believe they are property and that it can not be transferred then again the claim is forfeit as they can never own the object in question.
    Pseudointellectual blabbering will you nowhere with me.

    The only way you still believe they are property is if you believe they were unowned property before the slave owners claims, and that would lead to me asking you how exactly you believe property works.
    Nope, I believe people can be made into property through force. Before that, they are simply free individuals. Once force is employed, and they submit, they cease to be free individuals and become property. Is this REALLY hard for you to get?

    I still think you believe all claims are legitimate because the state recognizes them, sorry. If that is the case then your argument is circular.
    You're trying too hard to completely ignore the real world that we live in. Would you like me to find examples of chattel slavery and how it has worked and why your nonsensical arguments fail?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #973
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I just find it silly that he thinks that I don't really own my dogs or that I can't control them like I do a piece of land. Methinks the young master is projecting his own inability to control the property in his life. Hell, all I have to do is whistle and my dogs will run into the room. I can ship them off to any country that I want and they have no say in the matter. I can train them to do as I wish: attack, defend, be gentle etc. Hell, I can leave them to you and you can do all of that too! The same was done to human beings for 250+ years in the US and thousands of years around the world. Any notion that I don't own them is pseudo-intellectual nonsense.
    Libertarianism: Pseudo-intellectual nonsense. You got that right.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  4. #974
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A vegetable






    can be found in the fruit section of most any market. One should eat several each day to help maintain proper nutrition.

    Health Benefits of Vegetables: Vitamins, Nutrients, Fiber

    some are even organic you are willing to pay a bit more.

    Try eating more of them.
    total deflection, and you will not address what his been posted, so you ignore it and post silliness.....

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    So what? Those found in the first volume were added by Congress for "historical purposes only".

    An organic law is a law or system of laws which forms the foundation of a government.

  6. #976
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Of course they can. Would you like me to start citing examples of just that being done?
    Sure, go ahead and cite examples of people using force to obtain something and then calling it their property. I'm always up for a laugh.

    Not every forced transfer is robbery. Taxes for example are not robbery. You are free to move to a nation without them or with an inability to enforce them. I hear Somalia is kind of nice. However, this is entirely irrelevant to the notion of whether people can be made into property.
    Taxation is extortion and sometimes theft.


    Nope, I believe people can be made into property through force. Before that, they are simply free individuals. Once force is employed, and they submit, they cease to be free individuals and become property. Is this REALLY hard for you to get?
    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So are you saying that if an individual kept causing problems for the slave owner and refused to do as they were told that individual would not be considered the property of the slave owner? Historically, it didn't really matter if the slave fought back as regardless they were property and the slave owner could do whatever they wanted with them legally speaking.

  7. #977
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sure, go ahead and cite examples of people using force to obtain something and then calling it their property. I'm always up for a laugh.
    Ummm, how do you think property is maintained if not through force? Seriously, how old are you?

    Taxation is extortion and sometimes theft.
    Lol, nonsense.

    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So are you saying that if an individual kept causing problems for the slave owner and refused to do as they were told that individual would not be considered the property of the slave owner?
    Of course they would be because of all of the other components I cited earlier.

    Historically, it didn't really matter if the slave fought back as regardless they were property and the slave owner could do whatever they wanted with them legally speaking.
    I'm glad you finally realize that human beings can become property.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm, how do you think property is maintained if not through force? Seriously, how old are you?
    Voluntary trade. Do you rob your local grocery store regularly? No? Well then, what is it that you are doing? Clearly you can't be obtaining property since you are doing so voluntarily. lol.

    Lol, nonsense.
    So when the state forces me to pay property taxes or lose my house that isn't extortion? I'm pretty sure they are using threats in order to make me pay them and I'm pretty sure that is extortion.

    Of course they would be because of all of the other components I cited earlier.
    That's not what you just said though.

    I'm glad you finally realize that human beings can become property.
    I never said that people can't claim others as their property.

  9. #979
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    An organic law is a law or system of laws which forms the foundation of a government.
    Ernest...you act as though there's some relevance ^^^^^^ to our current Constitution and Federal Code and Statues. CONGRESS clearly stated their intent for putting those 4 historical documents in the preface of these titles of law.

    You are brain stuck with some strange notion as to what they actually mean in context to the way government works or how it impacts the citizen of our great nation.

    You've created a fantasy that clearly works for YOU, but after 100s of posts regarding this thread and the DOI thread...you need to ask yourself why YOU aren't being supported by a much larger group of posters.

  10. #980
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Ernest...you act as though there's some relevance ^^^^^^ to our current Constitution and Federal Code and Statues. CONGRESS clearly stated their intent for putting those 4 historical documents in the preface of these titles of law.

    You are brain stuck with some strange notion as to what they actually mean in context to the way government works or how it impacts the citizen of our great nation.

    You've created a fantasy that clearly works for YOU, but after 100s of posts regarding this thread and the DOI thread...you need to ask yourself why YOU aren't being supported by a much larger group of posters.
    the organic laws of the u.s. form its foundation, and you find that natural law is part of that foundation via the laws of the u.s. ..it is impossible for ANY of you to use u.s. law to support you concepts of rights.... because to have such a law on the books would go against the very principles/ foundation of america, so not such law exist for you to make a case.


    In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution.

    rights are .....unwritten law

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