View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

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  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
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Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #941
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    My point is that you can't give up ownership of yourself.
    That isn't required for you to become somebody's property. Dogs don't give up ownership of themselves. Neither do cars, neither does land. People appropriate those things just like they do human beings. The notion that they aren't owned like any other piece of property is contrary to that which is taught in any history class or even basic historical evidence.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That isn't required for you to become somebody's property. Dogs don't give up ownership of themselves. Neither do cars, neither does land. People appropriate those things just like they do human beings. The notion that they aren't owned like any other piece of property is contrary to that which is taught in any history class or even basic historical evidence.
    Everything I said would apply to animals as well. A dog is in control over it's own body and they can not freely give it up nor can anyone take it from them. A car doesn't own anything as it's an inanimate object, and a piece of land is just a bunch of dirt of rocks that have no abilities of their own.

  3. #943
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Everything I said would apply to animals as well. A dog is in control over it's own body and they can not freely give it up nor can anyone take it from them.
    That's nice Henrin, however becoming somebody's slave does not require you to willingly give up control over yourself. It is the forceful appropriation of another human being. This is a pretty simple concept, why are you having so much trouble with it?

    A car doesn't own anything as it's an inanimate object
    Neither does a dog.

    and a piece of land is just a bunch of dirt of rocks that have no abilities of their own.
    That's great, but none of that is required for you to become somebody's property.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #944
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's nice Henrin, however becoming somebody's slave does not require you to willingly give up control over yourself. It is the forceful appropriation of another human being. This is a pretty simple concept, why are you having so much trouble with it?
    Even if I was going to agree that people can in fact be property it would still require ownership to be transferred to the slave owner. Since the slave can not transfer ownership the slave owner can never own them, and thus all we are dealing with here is robbery.

    Neither does a dog.
    You will have to remind my dog of that.

  5. #945
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    No, but they couldn't be permitted to infect the general populace. They'd have to quarantined, even if that meant indefinitely in a controlled environment.
    Quarantines don't work. Filters don't work to keep the virus out. So, are people wrong to kill them as a potential threat? Are they, the people who cause the infection wrong to try to survive even if that means others might come into contact with them and die? Who gets to decide?
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-28-15 at 06:38 PM.
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  6. #946
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh, let me show your the error of your ways

    An organic law is a law or system of laws which forms the foundation of a government, corporation or other organization's body of rules. A constitution is a particular form of organic law for a sovereign state.

    The Organic Laws of the United States of America can be found in Volume One of the United States Code which contains the General and Permanent Laws of the United States. U.S. Code (2007)[1] defines the organic laws of the United States of America to include the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787, and the Constitution of September 17, 1788


    try reading them for a change.

    Organic law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A vegetable

    veg·e·ta·ble
    ˈvejtəb(ə)l,ˈvəjədəb(ə)l/
    noun
    1.
    a plant or part of a plant used as food, typically as accompaniment to meat or fish, such as a cabbage, potato, carrot, or bean.
    "fresh fruit and vegetables"



    can be found in the fruit section of most any market. One should eat several each day to help maintain proper nutrition.

    http://www.healthyeating.org/Healthy...egetables.aspx

    some are even organic you are willing to pay a bit more.

    Try eating more of them.
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  7. #947
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh, let me show your the error of your ways

    An organic law is a law or system of laws which forms the foundation of a government, corporation or other organization's body of rules. A constitution is a particular form of organic law for a sovereign state.

    The Organic Laws of the United States of America can be found in Volume One of the United States Code which contains the General and Permanent Laws of the United States. U.S. Code (2007)[1] defines the organic laws of the United States of America to include the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787, and the Constitution of September 17, 1788


    try reading them for a change.

    Organic law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So what? Those found in the first volume were added by Congress for "historical purposes only".

  8. #948
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    My point is that you can't give up ownership of yourself. You can claim you sold yourself into slavery and someone can claim they have ownership of you, but in reality a transfer of ownership never happened. The only way it could happen is if you could transfer control over your own body, but as it stands that is not possible.
    Well, you can be forced to give up self-ownership "in part"...sort of.

    For example:

    The government imposing taxes is like forcing one to labor without being fully compensated. Yes? No? That Libertarian belief is based on the concept of self-ownership and the ownership of our labor.

    But this begs the question: Is the individual's privilege to share highways built with taxpayer money a form of compensation for the taxpayers?

  9. #949
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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Even if I was going to agree that people can in fact be property it would still require ownership to be transferred to the slave owner.
    That is absolutely absurd. You don't need to be owned by somebody first in order to become a slave. You're made into a slave through force. The same way that land is made into property, the same way that dogs are made into property, the same way in which anything else is made into property. It is made into property through force.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That is absolutely absurd. You don't need to be owned by somebody first in order to become a slave. You're made into a slave through force. The same way that land is made into property, the same way that dogs are made into property, the same way in which anything else is made into property. It is made into property through force.
    Again, dogs like human being own themselves and such ownership can not be transferred. The control and ownership of a piece of dirt and rocks, a car, a couch, a plane or some other inanimate object can easily be shown to be transferable. I can't control people because I can't truly assume control over them. It can never truly be a transferable object to the fullest extent of the word.

    There are things that are simply not transferable, and other things that are not able to be owned at all, like for example, an idea.

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