View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Natural Rights?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    36 41.38%
  • No

    51 58.62%
Page 94 of 100 FirstFirst ... 44849293949596 ... LastLast
Results 931 to 940 of 994

Thread: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

  1. #931
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,428

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    I'm sure the Japanese viewed it (and still do now) as immoral.

    Subjective morality justified.
    I'm sure they do, too, but then sometimes a leader is faced with a Hobson's choice in which there is no moral or "right" answer. Even the Air Corps general in charge of the bombings said:

    "Killing Japanese didn't bother me very much at that time... I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.... Every soldier thinks something of the moral aspects of what he is doing. But all war is immoral and if you let that bother you, you're not a good soldier."

    American Experience . Race for the Superbomb . General Curtis E. LeMay, (1906 - 1990) | PBS
    So where is the subjectivity here? Incinerating kids who know nothing of warfare is wrong. Nonetheless, I can't fault Truman for dropping the Bomb.
    Нава́льный 2018

  2. #932
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,428

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Using nukes on Japan was the lesser evil because it stopped the conflict with far fewer casualties.

    There, mass killing justified.
    That's why I can't fault Truman. I've heard all of the arguments against the bombings: They were immoral. The Japanese really wanted to surrender. Truman's terms were unreasonable. We should have demonstrated it. Blah. Blah. Blah. The fact is each day that war carried on more people were dying throughout Asia--American, British, Australian, Chinese, Filipino, Indian, Japanese.... The Japanese could have ended it, but it took a second bomb and almost a week plus the intervention of the Emperor to stop it. These people were fanatics, and it took virtually their annihilation and destruction of their will to fight to bring them to heel.
    Нава́льный 2018

  3. #933
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    80,195

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    by saying there is no natural rights, you reject all law in america, because all law is built on the foundation of our organic laws.
    That is patently ridiculous. One does not have to believe in mythic gods in the sky handing out our rights like so much Halloween candy to costumed toddlers in October to have a respect for law.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #934
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    80,195

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Using nukes on Japan was the lesser evil because it stopped the conflict with far fewer casualties.

    There, mass killing justified.
    That is a very good point. To one extent or the other - a declared world war is the essence of mass killing regardless of the details of how it is sometimes carried out. It all has the same point and same goal and involves the intentional killing of the other side or at least the acceptance of massive deaths on the other side as a result of your actions even if the specific intent may not have been to kill that particular person.

    We can argue about the tactical decision from a strategy perspective - but the idea that it was somehow less "moral" or less "ethical" than the fire bombing of Dresden or any other such attack is rather pointless.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #935
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,428

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is patently ridiculous. One does not have to believe in mythic gods in the sky handing out our rights like so much Halloween candy to costumed toddlers in October to have a respect for law.
    It's a myth that one has to believe in gods wearing white togas hurling lightning bolts from their perch atop Mt. Olympus to believe in natural rights.
    Нава́льный 2018

  6. #936
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    80,195

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    It's a myth that one has to believe in gods wearing white togas hurling lightning bolts from their perch atop Mt. Olympus to believe in natural rights.
    They could be wearing green togas or blue or madras. Perhaps they are clad in levis and T-shirts? Or perhaps they simply cavort in the natural without benefit of being clad in any covering - which may be where the term "natural rights" comes from?

    Barring any other viable explanation - its as good as any for those who believe in believing for the sake of having a belief to believe in.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #937
    stb
    Nilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Beantown
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:15 PM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    4,850

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I'm sure they do, too, but then sometimes a leader is faced with a Hobson's choice in which there is no moral or "right" answer. Even the Air Corps general in charge of the bombings said:

    So where is the subjectivity here? Incinerating kids who know nothing of warfare is wrong. Nonetheless, I can't fault Truman for dropping the Bomb.
    So you're saying that because there are often no right answer morality must be objective? If anything, it strengthens the suggestion that morality is subjective. A subjective morality is one that can evolve as we progress as a species, which is important as we gain more knowledge about the world around us. As we learn that the child sacrifices are not necessary to appease the volcano god the idea of sacrificing them shifts from moral to immoral.

    300 years ago, slavery was not considered morally wrong, now it is. I am assuming that in your 'objective morality' slavery is wrong. Are there things that we consider moral now that in 500 times may be considered immoral? What would objective morality say about those things? If we as a species are slowly moving towards the state of being objectively morality, have we yet reached it, can or will we ever reach it?
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Anytime anyone has waged a war on human science, science has won." - David Rothkopf

  8. #938
    Anti-democracy advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    China - teaching grasshopper
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,425

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is patently ridiculous. One does not have to believe in mythic gods in the sky handing out our rights like so much Halloween candy to costumed toddlers in October to have a respect for law.

    oh, let me show your the error of your ways

    An organic law is a law or system of laws which forms the foundation of a government, corporation or other organization's body of rules. A constitution is a particular form of organic law for a sovereign state.

    The Organic Laws of the United States of America can be found in Volume One of the United States Code which contains the General and Permanent Laws of the United States. U.S. Code (2007)[1] defines the organic laws of the United States of America to include the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787, and the Constitution of September 17, 1788


    try reading them for a change.

    Organic law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    I am the President see me smile

  9. #939
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    40,370

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    My ownership can't be bought or sold. The entire concept of owning another human being is flawed. You can force someone into labor for you, but you can't own them like you can a car or piece of land.
    Ummm .... Wha? Were you asleep during history class or something? I'm pretty sure chattel slavery in the US was exactly like owning a piece of land or a car.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #940
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    56,727

    Re: Do You Believe In Natural Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm .... Wha? Were you asleep during history class or something? I'm pretty sure chattel slavery in the US was exactly like owning a piece of land or a car.
    My point is that you can't give up ownership of yourself. You can claim you sold yourself into slavery and someone can claim they have ownership of you, but in reality a transfer of ownership never happened. The only way it could happen is if you could transfer control over your own body, but as it stands that is not possible.

Page 94 of 100 FirstFirst ... 44849293949596 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •